I just saw this movie for the first time ever yesterday, partially thanks to this board, and it felt kino right from the very beginning with those landscape shots and instrumentals.
I'd like to see Anon Babble's insights on the following topics:
1. Did Jack have The Shining too? (picrel) What was his fucking problem? I know alcoholism played a major role on his mental decay, but I'm sure there's still a lot to cover on why he went batshit crazy (i.e. lack of responsability and self-awareness, lack of communication, etc)
2. Do (you) think Jack molested Danny? There's a theory that correlates the scene when Danny sits in Jack's lap to the scene of the bear suit guy, some even say this is a metaphor for Wendy allowing it by just watching. Seems like Danny didn't have a proper paternal figure, which could explain Tony's existence in the first place.
3. Was the woman in the bathtub an allegory for the devil? What does she represent for (you)? Same for the bartender. I want to basically see your interpretations of the Overlook Hotel characters, because at some point, I felt like the hotel was some kind of metaphor for hell (e.g. "your money is no good here", the red color schemes)
4. Similar psychologically unnerving kino. I will say, this movie reminded me what I felt when I watched Midsommar, but ofc Kubrick's got a far superior execution on all sides.
The Shining (1980)
1
He wanted to become part of the Overlook Hotel's staff. Sometimes it's nice to feel like you're a part of something.
2
Doesn't look like a faggot to me, if anything it was that black guy or maybe his mother, she seemed a bit batshit crazy. Bad actress too.
3
She was a former guest at the hotel that overdosed on sleeping pills or some shit of that sort. I don't think she represented the devil but the hotel's hunger for living people.
4
Can't think of any right now.
represent
The hotel is spooky with spirits that haunt it. Jack has a darkness in him and they link and infect him. That's really it. It's an effective horror film about being trapped in a location with no way out, and one of your loved ones snapping.
Because it's old, well made, directed by Kubrick, it gets overanalysis.
The way that this scene builds is masterful.
youtu.be
1. Did Jack have The Shining too? (picrel) What was his fucking problem? I know alcoholism played a major role on his mental decay, but I'm sure there's still a lot to cover on why he went batshit crazy (i.e. lack of responsability and self-awareness, lack of communication, etc)
From this 1980 Stanley Kubrick interview ( visual-memory.co.uk
Q: How do you see the main character of Jack in The Shining?
A: Jack comes to the hotel psychologically prepared to do its murderous bidding. He doesn't have very much further to go for his anger and frustration to become completely uncontrollable. He is bitter about his failure as a writer. He is married to a woman for whom he has only contempt. He hates his son. In the hotel, at the mercy of its powerful evil, he is quickly ready to fulfill his dark role.
Need a smile gf.
2. Do (you) think Jack molested Danny? There's a theory that correlates the scene when Danny sits in Jack's lap to the scene of the bear suit guy, some even say this is a metaphor for Wendy allowing it by just watching. Seems like Danny didn't have a proper paternal figure, which could explain Tony's existence in the first place.
Not in the hotel. Jack dislikes Danny, or the responsibility he represents, so there's no indication he would sexually molest him. That creepy scene where Jack insists he loves Danny is as creepy as it gets in the hotel between them before the last day. Jack mostly wants to be left alone as far as Danny is concerned.
3. Was the woman in the bathtub an allegory for the devil? What does she represent for (you)? Same for the bartender. I want to basically see your interpretations of the Overlook Hotel characters, because at some point, I felt like the hotel was some kind of metaphor for hell (e.g. "your money is no good here", the red color schemes)
The woman in the bathroom is more developed in the book. She is a guest of the hotel who committed suicide over a bad relationship in the old days.
The bartender MIGHT be a stand-in for the Devil, or the ultimate authority in the Overlook. I think it's left up to interpretation, not sure if there's more in the novel.
why was he so mean to her?
4. Similar psychologically unnerving kino. I will say, this movie reminded me what I felt when I watched Midsommar, but ofc Kubrick's got a far superior execution on all sides.
Possession (1981) would be great in a double bill with The Shining. archive.org
She had that kind of a fucking face you wanna smash through a bathroom door with a hammer. Wide dumb eyes, constantly whining about unimportant shit, always standing in your way. No wonder Jack snapped, I'd have lost my fucking mind too.
Is this a good movie?
i have a beautiful wife and child despite being an ugly alcoholic piece of shit AHHHHH IM GOING INSANE
jack was a faggot
The first 3 minutes or so are good
i have a beautiful wife
this is beautiful?
for a meth addict maybe
1. Did Jack have The Shining too?
Yeah it'd seem so. Never thought of that actually but it seems obviously implied.
I know alcoholism played a major role on his mental decay
alcoholism was only the most visible character flaw of Jack's, he had other much more severe flaws like his temper, his lack of control over his violent strength. he was unemployed and had cold relationships with his wife and son.
2. Do (you) think Jack molested Danny?
Maybe. He seems pretty prepared with the explanation of "the most logical answer is the kid did it [gave a bruise] to himself." it's maybe he's used that as a lie in the past as a cover for himself. But it's equally possible that was actually indeed what happened and Jack was simply right on the money assessing the situation. No real answer there, in either case Jack's high intelligence would be apparent.
3. Was the woman in the bathtub represent for (you)?
Sexual impropriety though which seems alluring enough at first will quickly lead to overwhelming feelings of disgust , rot and decay.
Same for the bartender.
He's simply the ghostly presence with the strongest connection to Jack given Jack's alcoholism. If he were a fat fuck maybe the ghost would have been a chef in the dry storage or something offering him oreos. It's like contact or whatever the entity taking on the most appropriate form for mutual needs.
4. Similar psychologically unnerving kino.
I dunno man. Eyes Wide Shut. Mulholland Drive (but it's funnier)
don't talk bad about my wife.
Uh, maybe stay away from hotels anon
Smile and gentle dispositions goes a long way. Her clothes don't make her any favor in The Shining, and obviously in this scene her character is not in the best spot, she is stressed and vulnerable
1. Did Jack have The Shining too?
yes
2. Do (you) think Jack molested Danny?
no. this is gay obtuse rob ager shit.
3. Was the woman in the bathtub an allegory for the devil?
no. it's just evil shit that happened at the hotel.
4. Similar psychologically unnerving kino.
eraserhead and polanski's repulsion were both influences on the shining. kubrick was also a big admirer of picnic at hanging rock, which has a similar vibe
this is gay obtuse rob ager shit
Okay, explain the guy in the bear costume sucking off the other guest
it's in the book.
1)I believe the shining is genetically inherited. Jack was cursed by the shining. He had just enough of a latent shining talent for the hotels spirits to be able to enter his mind and bend it to his will
2)No, I don't think there was molesting happening. Jack was a fuck up but his arm injury of Danny was an accident and there is no indication he was molesting Danny. In the shining sequel 'Dr Sleep' it's clear that Danny Torrance looks back fondly on his father. The Jack coming across the bearsuit sex scene was more representative of the party atmosphere the hotels ghosts were offering Jack in their own fucked up uncharismatic way that just came off as terrifying.
3)The woman in the bathtub was just a soldier/agent ghost. She was offering pleasure on behalf of the hotel in exchange for Jacks services to the hotel. She became a rotting corpse when Jack rallying his will to resist. She essentially started looking like what she actually was at the end.
NTA but the bear and specifically the association with Danny's bear could simply be imagery tailored for Wendy. She likely would associate the bear with Danny, with children and innocence or whatever so to show an adult in a bear costume sucking off some weird polished old dude would be an especially shocking image, for Wendy.
Maybe the hotel is trying to convince Wendy her husband is sexually abusing their child.
Smile and gentle dispositions goes a long way
Here's one with a smile and without those exaggerated eyelashes.
She honestly looks like one of those fetal alcohol syndrome babies.
it's explained in the book, where it has nothing to do with jack or danny. striped of its context in the movie, it becomes yet another weird thing for the characters/the audience to witness. it doesn't have to have any deeper symbolic meaning. it's like asking what the blood trickling down the face of the guy who says "great party, isn't it?" is supposed to 'mean'; nothing, it's just an unnerving detail.
kinda shocks me that some adults haven't seen shining, pretty sure your parents fucked up if they didn't show it to you from age 8 to 13. Its the perfect balance of horror that isn't too fucked for children, that and Nicholson is godly
smile goes a long way
not with those kind of gums lol
Its the perfect balance of horror that isn't too fucked for children
That's a good point. Violent but hardly ever graphic.
1. No
2. Yes
3. Is an allegory of Jack's abuse towards Danny, it haunts them both
4. Other Kubrick films
watch Jacob's Ladder if you haven't seen it. anyways no way Jack molested Danny and yes I think he experienced the shining
You’re obviously not familiar with Kubrick. I very seriously doubt he spent time on that scene and left it in the Final Cut for it to be le unnerving. What’s your agenda anyways, Jack is already shown to be an abuser so wtf are you defending?
She subconsciously knows but consciously doesn’t want to face the reality.
Jack is already shown to be an abuser
When?
literally the early scene from picrel you doofus
literally the early scene from picrel
OH yeah I totally forgot how we're literally shown a cutaway of him abusing danny.
Oh wait.. we're not.
just say you're gay.
I don't have a specific thing for Shelley Duvall, but I'll take an ''ugly" gentle and supportive woman over an "attractive", cold and self-involved woman with her own agenda any day of the week. obviously, it's more complicated and nuanced than that in real life. i get used to people's looks after two weeks. everyone has weird faces if you look at them hard enough.
can't help you if you're being that obtuse.
I'm just saying, we're only told a story and we don't really know what happened. It's possible, anyway, that it was only an accident.
She's a beautiful french lady
You’re obviously not familiar with Kubrick.
i've read every interview, watched every documentary, read the scripts and in most cases the source material they were adapted from, read several biographies on him and interviews with his collaborators, etc. etc. kubrick is my favorite filmmaker.
What’s your agenda anyways, Jack is already shown to be an abuser so wtf are you defending?
exactly. what does approaching sexual abuse but in a coy way add to the story? danny is already an explicitly abused child. wendy is already explicitly in denial of that abuse. danny is already explicitly traumatized by that abuse. the story intimating further abuse but not actually dramatizing it would not meaningfully enrich the movie, and for idiots like ager, this idea is presented through shit like "a teddy bear you see for a second on the floor in the background". it is not worth entertaining this stupidity and all of it goes against what kubrick said about his own interest in cinematic storytelling and how he wanted to reach audiences.
if you look for the early synopsis for the film, at some point Kubrickplanned on filming an actual cutaway for the incident, though Jack's snap would have happened off-screen.
in any event, there's not a lot of room for interpretation after Jack's version of the story told to Lloyd, he just denies his own responsibility.
If you wouldn't fuck her brains out you're a confirmed fag. Sorry anon.
It's one thing to fuck her and another to marry her.
If he were a fat fuck maybe the ghost would have been a chef in the dry storage or something offering him oreos
kek, unironically great analysis, thanks smartanon.
Mulholland Drive
I didn't know it was psychologically unnerving. Will watch.
Also what about Carrie?
I honestly don't think Kubric would leave any scene just for its shock value, as he's autistically specific with what each frame (and the elements within it) convey not only to the viewer, but to the plot itself.
My father died when I was 10, and my mother hasn't even seen Matrix lolol
For me, it's the blood coming out of the elevator scene. Unfathomably chilling.
Ty for the recs /tevee/ bros
Also what about Carrie?
Carrie was pretty good. I don't remember much about my viewing but I remember being impressed by the ending.
answers in the form of interpretation
1. Jack just sucked as a human being. He got married to a woman he wasn’t sexually attracted to, got her pregnant with a son he forced himself to like. He got trapped in a way where no one could honestly be blamed while at the same time you can say he’s a damned soul. He was easy to control. The memories of the best tastes and smells exist deep down in his subconscious, that an evil spirit can unlock with a snap of a finger. Very easy to control.
Wendy, on the other hand, does. As far as I’m concerned, I don’t give a fuck about the canon book reality of the Shining gene being passed through Jack as it’s revealed in the Doctor Sleep book. I acknowledge the Kubrick version as being a different reality from the book its based on. And in Kubrick’s Shining, Wendy has some faint senses that are very dulled. She isn’t fully tapped into any true potential until she goes through the chase with Jack in the end and starts seeing the ghosts, who are in various places, showing her their “true forms” as grotesquely evil ghouls.
2. No to the idea of Jack strangling Danny. You can say all you want that there was something creepy that could have or probably happened, but in the end, it was the woman in the bathtub. Jack could’ve done some perverted with Danny many a time, but he was showing genuine surprise that Danny was bruised and not by him. As far as he can remember. Though saying “Maybe he did it to himself” is a way abusers talk.
3. The woman in the bathtub is representative of a lust that Jack is denied by Olive Oyle. She was still somebody, maybe the wife of the caretaker, or another woman entirely. She could be two women for all we know- not just two actresses, but two different demons switching turns to embrace Jack. You could attribute all of the seven deadly sins into various parts of the movie. Wrath is there, obviously. Jack sleeps in a lot. I’m sure there’s more.
Jack was a homosexual and did other stuff
red rum
the book and movie have a similarities and differences so it’s hard because Kubrick sometimes implies things from the books but it’s hard to assume because other places he completely changes things. King also wrote a sequel which fills in some blanks (maybe that were left out originally) but that’s far after the fact.
1)probably but not to the extent of Danny or Holloran. The book goes a lot more into the alcoholism aspect, but essentially having to deal with his life going to shit and trying to recover as an alcoholic makes him mentally weaker so that the hotel can control him easier. The hotel really wants Danny so it uses Jack to get him. One big divergence from the book is Jack is more going crazy rather than possessed.
2)this is storyline seems plausible based on the evidence the movie provides. It is something not mentioned or hinted at in the book. The bear suit guy blowing another guy is something directly from the book. But it’s odd to include it in the movie and not bring up any other part of that storyline in the movie. So it seems like Kubrick included it for a reason.
3)the tub lady and bartender are both ghosts of people who died in the hotel. Their spirits are used by the hotel to get Danny/corrupt Jack. (Blowjob bear is also a ghost just FYI). I have seen the hotel as hell theory and it makes some good points, but I personally feel and view the hotel as its own evil entity.
4)not as good, but Dr Sleep is the sequel and has a good villain
3 (continued). The alluring opulence perilously stacked up on a mountainous plateau where natives attempted to fight off the construction. Ancient burial grounds were desecrated for the sake of fabulous New Year parties and keeping 15 rib roasts, 12 turkeys, etc in a big ass freezer.
Hell and Heaven are what you make of it. A lot of people think that Jack could have had a perfect time up there if he just realized how good he had it. But he was an unsatisfied man, and he sold his soul for a drink and a chance for a real big opportunity with the house itself. The House managed to absorb Jack in the end, and he’s having a lovely time after the pain and suffering he put himself through. Probably even got promoted to demon status after his soul was done realizing his body was frozen.
4. everything Twin Peaks related and David Lynch; The Lobster by Yorgos Lanthimos; Rosemary’s Baby by Roman Polanski; Alfred Hitchcock’s films; Blood Simple by the Coen Brothers; Experiment in Terror (1962); Possession by Andrej Zulawski; Audition (1999)
Ancient burial grounds were desecrated for the sake of fabulous New Year parties
Even worse–it was the "4th of July Ball".