Know you're going into a trap
Do nothing
Know there's a traitor in your group
Do nothing to find out
In hindsight this guy and the entire Artreides "planners" were dumb
The idea was that it was extremely risky but if they played their cards right and came out on top the benefits of ruling Arrakis would've been well worth the trouble. The search for the traitor is also way more fleshed out in the book.
why fight with melee weapons? What if someone bring a bulldozer?
Shields stop bullets. So they are almost useless. And laser guns kill both the shooter and the guy getting shot if they have a shield.
The risk was calculated, but they were bad at math. Also,
In hindsight
Leto bangs a Bene Gesserit and wishes he could put a ring on that, man loves playing with fire. It was inevitable he'd get burned.
but what if someone bring a bulldozer? What now, bucko?
Writer obviously wanted swordfights so the setting has shield technology that made all fast projectile weapons useless and laser weapons unreliable. Missile weapons and bombs had to be refitted with technology that slows down the ordinance right before impact so it can go through shields.
Remove your pants.
In the books. The Sukh doctor has a conditining that prevents them from betraying their master. It's thought to be umbreakable. That's why they don't suspect Yueh. Piter De vries breaking that conditioning is one of Harkonnen big accomplishments. In the movie neither Yueh nor Piter get much screentime.
Best Irulan.
Kinda funny how easy it was to break the conditioning. Did nobody try kidnapping and torturing a loved one before? Really?
It isn't like they had a choice to refuse going into the trap. They could have been a little bit more prepared than absolutely not at all thoughever.
The Emperor was trying to fuck with them. Either they accept Arrakis and they give the Harkonnen a shot at them, or they reject Arrakis and the Emperor has an excuse for saying they're disloyal and ungrateful.
The Atreides were popular enough in the Landsraad (other nobles) that they were on track to challenge Imperial power, either next generation or somewhere down the line. The Emperor was taking their best shot.
Crucially everyone involved knew this is exactly what was happening. The only surprises were that the Harkonnen had someone inside the Atreides household, and because the Guild wanted to fuck with the Paul as part of the BG breeding program the Harkonnen were able to organize a much bigger attack much sooner than expected.
The sandworms are invincible weapons at first, but then just bring tanks of water to spray them with and they will die. Simple as.
Yeah that's a legitimate flaw at first. But it flows with the rest of the book. Jessica defies BG to bear the Duke a boy and the Sukh conditioning is broken because of love. All the geniuses like Thufir and BG underestimate love.
BG
Big Guy?
I thought that the loophole in the conditioning was that Yueh placed the decision ultimately in Leto's own hands to kill himself
Bene Gesserit.
It's very hazy.
Oddly specific.
>Know there's a traitor in your group
How did they NOT suspect Yueh? His wife had literally been captured by the Harks. Like did they not know? How the fuck do they not know someone important has been captured?
It's also a society run by aristocratic, militaristic, honor bound ideals. It's the same way soldiers used to dress ostentatiously and would want to be seen and recognized as opposed to today where they don't want to be seen at all.
It was supposed to be impossible for him to betray.
It's still lazy. His wife is supposed to be a Bene Gesserit member too. Some close to the house has his wife kidnapped and they did not know.
Also they didn’t expect the emperor to be desperate and short-sighted enough to authorize using his own elite shock troops for the ambush. Which is the only reason the plan worked, the Harkonnen couldn’t have pulled that off on their own.
why fight with melee weapons?
The shields prevent any sufficiently fast firing projectile from penetrating them. Obviously, if someone had brought in a bulldozer, they could just run everyone over. Also, laser guns aren't used against shields because it leads to unpredictable outcomes, sometimes it disables the shield and kills the enemy, sometimes it causes an atomic explosion, and that's bad because if the other Houses suspect you of using atomic weapons offensively, they'll gang up on you and nuke your House out of existence, all with the blessing of the Emperor and support of the Sardaukar. There are some projectile weapons that fire semi-intelligent projectiles that slow down when they hit the shields and slowly power through them.
A universe where space travel is possible
Have energy based weaponry like lasers
Instead of glassing enemies from the sky they fight with cutters bc muh energy shields muh lasers exploding when shot at
You could drop megaton explosions around shield users and overload that shit or ragdoll them into oblivion then with 20th century weaponry like bombs
Yet its all about machetes, slow machetes
it just stupid even in their own universe
Much better than the resting-bitch-face British midget we got.
They have vehicles in dune, retard. Your bulldozer gets blown up by a rocket launcher. They show this in the movie and I think the book. Shields and melee are for infantry, and even then they're not perfect because the shields block air.
It’s not exactly realistic but it is a good demonstration of the real concept of warfare not always evolving in the way you would expect.
I agree.
You're forgetting that open warfare on that scale is a big no no in the imperium. That's what gets the entire Landsrad and the Sadaukar on your ass. Plus if you're doing shit from space, you could piss off the spacers guild who would blacklist you. You could also piss off CHOAM too and fuck up your economy.
That's another one, so three big surprises. Yueh being compromised by the Harkonnens (completely unprecedented), the Guild being willing to bring a big invasion force (they can always just say NOPE to anyone trying to do an invasion, so not unprecedented but very unlikely and expensive), and the Emperor being willing to send Sardukar (completely unprecedented).
Just going from the deal as presented, Atreides were in serious danger but they would have won. Even if the Guild had brought an invasion of Harkonnens, without Yueh and the Sardukar, the Atreides had a better shot at winning.
bro we have artillery and nukes and jdams and sarin gas and white phosphorous why the fuck isn't anyone using it you could wipe out your enemy instantly
Man this whole Earth thing is unrealistic as fuck I can't wait for this shit to get cancelled.
It's ok when (((Harknonnen))) do it
Its dumb as shit and doesn't answer the fact their own make believe technology doesn't make sense
Oh that's another thing, they could just drop gas and the shields are fucked anyways, napalm, or just a big, slow rock on top of them (actually seen in the movie as the pressure of a ship fucks one of the shields)
Comparing a lush Earth full of valuable resources and full of cities and people to Arrakis, a giant planet full of spice and worms and sand and that's it
Why don't the Harkonnen or Sardaukar use ranged weapons against freemen then since freemen don't have shields?
Also, how do the freemen Jihad the galaxy. Do the other houses just allow them to land ships full of melee warriors on their planets instead of blowing those ships up instead?
The Padisha Emperor himself wanted the Atreides dead. That's why he sent the Sardaukar with the Harkonnens.
full of spice and worms and sand and that's it
That spice and those worms make Arrakis the single most valuable planet in the galaxy.
That spice and those worms make Arrakis the single most valuable planet in the galaxy.
That sounds like the best idea to just use space sarin gas over Atreides.
4u
In the Dune Encyclopedia they describe that ships are sometimes used to crush formations of shielded soldiers.
You're misunderstanding what might be the most basic concept of warfare ever;
People don't go scorched earth because 90% of the time there's useful shit on that earth
Oh that's another thing, they could just drop gas and the shields are fucked anyways, napalm, or just a big, slow rock on top of them (actually seen in the movie as the pressure of a ship fucks one of the shields)
Yeah why aren't the countries and alliances of Earth dropping giant rocks on eachother? How many seasons of this bullshit are they going to keep going with these unrealistic dogshit plotlines?
Spacer guild said no. Also the convention I think prevents that.
How the fuck can you compare real life warfare to a space faring fantasy in a shit planet nobody can reach and there's just two factions and one of them is clearly coming to get you
I know you like DUNC cock but you gotta be so disingenuous to get cock?
The dude in ops picture got shot in the back with a gay little dart.
still can't figure out the underlying issue being referenced
I hope you figure it out eventually.
what if i put a shield on the bulldozer?
it's supposed to be some massive shock that this guy was the traitor because he's psychologically programmed to be loyal or some shit
how did the Baron get him to betray the Duke?
kidnap his wife and threaten her if he doesn't do what he says, aka literally the first thing anyone would think of
yeah this was retarded
Did you even pay attention to the movie? The rockets slow down when they hit a shield.
someone nukes your planets so you nuke theirs
Great plan, nigger
then put some point defense on the bulldozer or have someone cover it?
refusal meant certain death, so either refuse for a 0% chance of survival or take the bait for a 1% chance. Pretty easy choice
why dont they just use trebuchets and hurl rocks at the other side? whats a shield going to do against a giant rock?
It's called an offer you can't refuse. Villeneuve is such a fucking hack that unless you had read the books you would have zero understanding the power dynamics of everything going on.
They knew, for some values of knew, that she had been killed by the Harkonnens.
Yueh went along with being a traitor to set off his own plot to kill the Baron
Plans within plans
JUST TURN YOUR BRAIN OFF DUNC IS A MASTERPIECE
impossible for him to betray
so how did he betray then
Even with white guys at the controls, bulldozers find it hard to move without rhythm.
The point defense also gets stopped by the shield. You should really read the book. All of this is explained in like the fist chapter.
Also, how do the freemen Jihad the galaxy. Do the other houses just allow them to land ships full of melee warriors on their planets instead of blowing those ships up instead?
Well in the book the Landsraad actually does recognize Paul’s claim to throne and the Jihad is more of a slow-rolling purge against dissident houses that won’t accept his rule. So Paul has ships and non-Freman armies and an actual base of political support. It’s not just spice-hajjis against the universe.
not if they slow down before they hit the shield
Like I said "supposed to be". The Harkonnens found out a way to break his conditioning.
It makes 0 sense at all the author just wanted le cool melee fights.
so le perfect conditioning is broken by a simple threat?
that way being just threatening his wife? the first thing anyone would think to do lmao?
It makes perfect sense if you understand how the shield effect works. You're just a retarded zoomer who can't read.
He determined the Atreides were done for and were going to be eliminated anyways. So why not make literally the last breath of the Duke worth something? In his mind based on his own conclusions it’s not betrayal. What are the other options? The Emperor is working with the Baron so will lol at you. Tell the Duke which you know is double teamed and is going to lose.
Once, in thousands of years.
theres tons of ways to deal with the stupid shields like chemical weapons or just tossing heavy boulders off a catapult. having combat devolve to melee only is just retarded
I was pissed they skipped the whole Gurney trying go kill Lady Jessica in the movie. I'm glad I sneaked a bottle of whisky to the movie theater.
So the thing that kind of comes through in the books is that the society of Dune is kind of inherently flawed for lots of reasons. Basically shit like conditioning is a half measure to try and replicate things that robots used to do before a 100 year galaxy wide war destroyed all thinking machines and made them illegal.
If somebody have told me that warfare in 2025 was going to be about small chink drones ramming each other down over the skies of jewkraine I'm pretty sure I would've said it was bullshit. But here we are.
guns are banned in this world
No his waifu was captuted.
The holtzman effect shield can deflect heavy boulders as well as gaseous matter. Basically any matter that isn't moving at a super slow speed gets repelled. You would know this is you read the book.
can deflect heavy boulders
wheres the boulder going to go?
gaseous matter
how do they breathe then if it deflects all gas?
drone warfare makes sense though, fighting like youre in 500 bc thousands of years into the future doesnt.
The idea
What idea. They didn't do shit but wait to get rekt.
Fremen actually don't dislike guns per se, they Even carry projectile weapons, and even they were very interested in the old artillery the harkonnens used in the book
The Baron brags that he found the secret to breaking the conditioning then gets nearly poisoned to death. The Baron thinks he’s clever when he’s really a Reddit mod. He fucks up multiple times from his own hubris.
Author wanted sword fights in space but was too gay to invent jedis
Fat
Arrogant
Degenerate pedophile
Makes sense
Yes and what’s he supposed to do after that? He works for the Emperor, he knows the Duke is fucked and doesn’t think telling him anything will change the outcome. He knows the Baron already killed his waifu so he chose revenge by going along with the plan but giving the Duke the spicy breath mint.
It does make sense, though. You can't risk a nuclear explosion by shooting lasguns at a shielded target, and the shield makes projectile weapons obsolete. Also you can't use thinking machines (computers) to slow down a projectile enough to penetrate a shield and hurt the user (even when that technology actually exists in the books) so the best next thing is just low tech swords and melee combat.
He knows the Baron already killed his waifu
He couldn't be sure whether or not she was dead, anon; and he HAD to know.
I haven't read the books, what is going on back on the atreides home planet when the ruling family is all presumed dead? Who is in charge? Is there a huge army back there?
The boulder bounces off you fucking faggot. And there's a scene in the book where Baron Harkonnen is saved from a gas poison because the shield slows it down enough that he can gtfo before it penetrates the shield.
Melee combat on a large battle scale isn't really a thing in the dune universe. Things are handled with Godfather style assassination wars.
dune is so unbelievable cringe
The worst think about the movies is the casting.
This dude fits perfectly the description of duncan, his role in star wars is the perfect look for duncan.
And unlike momoa he can act, but now momoa is duncan and if we ever get a god emperor movie he will be the main character.
No the worst part is the script. Basically anyone who didn't know the lore already has zero fucking clue what's going on. Also the dialogue is absolutely retarded compared to epic way that everyone talks in the book like a David Lean movie.
The Harkonnens were given Caladan; we don't see anything set there in the novel.
At the end of it one of Paul's demands is that Gurney Halleck get control of the planet as both an Earl and CHOAM director.
Sickly looking half kike and hideous half nigger as the leads in the adaptation of the worlds most popular science fiction novels
FRFR on God. Dune is boomer slop anime is so much better.
since i read the books i didn't really realize and enjoyed the pretty visuals (unless zendaya was mean mugging on screen)
I just wanted to see a good god emperor movie.
Who would you cast for the worm?
For moneo?
Maybe him for moneo or gary oldman
I honestly stopped around Children of Dune because that book is pretty fucking terrible.
Like it says in the novel
Knowing where the trap is - that's the first step in evading it.
Problem was everything escalated WAY beyond their control since they didn't expect Imperials backing Harkonnen.
That is actually the plan in the plot once Atreides find the nukes
Gee you fucking nigger nigger nigger you surely are a niggger nigging your movie an story sucks
Calm down zoomie.
Remember, if you want to beat a knifer, you yourself, need to become a slicer.
WORD
In Dune Messiah, Jessica goes back to the home world but that’s mostly just to take her out of the book, she comes back in the Third book.
Shields stop bullets. So they are almost useless. And laser guns kill both the shooter and the guy getting shot if they have a shield.
What, all shields are retro reflectors regardless of angle? They are flat planes as far as I know
If it deflects the boulder, then it would also deflect the shield user in the opposite direction in an equal and opposite fashion, would would kill them. And no gas means no air which means you can't breathe
i like the killdozer idea, so lorechads, why wouldn't this work?
Dune has interesting politics and philosophy but the tech is just plain retarded
A person would just let a giant bulldozer run them over.
Now I know you're a jeet.
The tech makes sense when you understand the history of the universe and why everything is so weirdly low tech.
Not as retarded as frogposting.
NOOOOO WHY DOES SCI-FI HAVE WEIRD POWER SCALING
Because if you can generate enough energy to go FTL, nuking a planet or even solar system out of existence is a mere matter of where you point your exhaust.
"It is impossible for an author still writing to be fair to another author working along the same lines. At least I find it so. In fact I dislike Dune with some intensity, and in that unfortunate case it is much the best and fairest to another author to keep silent and refuse to comment."
Lmao, even he didn't like this stupid book.
what about now m8?
nigger the machine is in the fucking movie, you're not outrunning that
Town near a lake
....hmm....what should I name this?...hmmm...wait! I got it! Laketown. Tolkien you've outdone yourself this time.
and it's all kino, you pleb
What about flame throwers?
Why were the Harkonens so mean?
Sci fi is so cool. Imagine what we’ll be like as far into the future as Dune is. No one knows. That’s what makes Dune so cool. It’s a glimpse into the depth of future possibility
After reading LOTR I am confused why he hated the book so much other than reeing at manufactured religions and the Orange Catholic Bible. I’d like to think he had more mature criticisms beyond that.
How is someone creative enough to come up with shit like Dune
The Baron was eating her in the movie right
Probably turned her into that horrific spider creature.
If you can't get out of the path if a slow moving giant bulldozer you are a jeet and deserve to die.
This basically ruins the first movie for me. Why would I care about a huge betrayal if the victim can‘t even be bothered to care?
People suspected Jessica becouse Bene Gesserit is aligned with emperor and Yuehs conditioning is supoesed to be unbreakable
You saw how effective is gas agents shields in the movie and nukes are banned by landsrad
Watch the movie retard
They do use bund, did you even watch the movie?
The first movie was so boring I never bothered with the second. Villememe seems to forget that's it's not enough to just have events happen, they actually need reasons to happen and connections to motivations and characters and so on.
Star wars is set in a time before trebuchets were invented
Gets eaten by the sandworm.
NTA but u gotta slog thru children to get to god emperor it's by far and away the best entry in the series, pure kino from start to finish
The second is considerably better
With that rule, even melee weapons should be deflected as they can easily move faster than the speed of sound. If you move too slow, every attack can be dodged.
They didn't have a choice
They got rekt in a few weeks, Leto thought they had much longer before the Baron tried something and didn't expect the Emperor to aid in the attack
If Leto knew the Harkonnens were going to attack Arrakis why didn't he just stay on Caladan?