Was Caesar really so based or is most of what we know about him propaganda from Augustus?

dude he totally got kidnapped by pirates, sailed the mediterranean and killed them all when they set him free

he's so epic he did a stalingrad at alessia but with 2 million gauls instead of cykas

jesus said things belong to him :O

he was soooo fucking that hot (hideous and inbred greek) egyptussy

he crossed a river and the entire army said he's based (repeat for napoleon)

he got betrayed and said a cool phrase before dying

It's all fake, most of history is completely made up or heavily exaggerated.

Yeah, Caesar haters are literal redditors
Like this guy

or is most of what we know about him propaganda from Augustus?

We know more about Caesar than almost any of his Roman contemporaries because he wrote two books which have survived the centuries -- his Gallic Wars and Civil War.

Augustus also wrote an autobiography but sadly it's lost to history which boggles my fucking mind, losing an autobiography of arguably the most important person to ever live.

comparing Caesar with fucking Trump

Caesar spent those 'aimless 35 years' learning Greek, philosophy, and the art of war. He spent those 35 years gaining a reputation as a fearless cavalry commander and one of the best horsemen in Rome. He attached himself to powerful men of means who also needed the shine of his family's name by hook or crook. He inherited very little in the way of wealth.

You can't call him a self-made man like fucking Pertinax or something but for his time period, Caesar definitely overcame many disadvantages.

great general, shit politician

bro, you know that history which includes the jews getting expelled from over 200 countries for being a massive fucking nuisance?

the jews made it up to make themselves look good

How fucking dumb do you have to be to believe something like this? I'm surprised you can even operate a keyboard.

While absent from Rome, in 73 BC, Caesar was co-opted into the pontifices in place of his deceased relative Gaius Aurelius Cotta. The promotion marked him as a well-accepted member of the aristocracy with great future prospects in his political career.[25] Caesar decided to return shortly thereafter and on his return was elected one of the military tribunes for 71 BC.[26] There is no evidence that Caesar served in war – even though the war on Spartacus was on-going – during his term; he did, however, agitate for the removal of Sulla's disabilities on the plebeian tribunate and for those who supported Lepidus' revolt to be pardoned.

Lmao he was a draft dodger too.

losing an autobiography of arguably the most important person to ever live

It's endlessly depressing but luckily there is still a lot of good historical info about him. I read both his and Caesaras biographies by Adrian Goldsworthy (incredibly good books btw) and was shocked at the level of granularity we have regarding the formers life. Goldsworthy is incredibly diligent about point out lack of evidence when appropriate as well so it's not conjecture either. For me he's the most interesting historical figure and lived a life unequaled in the west.

Caesar conquered the Gauls, which is more than you will ever do with your life.

hey Anon Babble, history-pill me

what are you a fucking idiot. although I suppose it's better than asking a chatbot

lol caesar had more impact on the world in 1 average day of his adult life than any Anon Babble retard will have in their lifetime

Woah he dragged his massive slave army through the woods to kill random pagan barbarians and enlisted them into his army to go slaughter other pagan barbarians so impressive. Go compare him to Bismarck and you will stop with this childish idolizing of a populist retard

Sources for jews being a nuisance everywhere they went: actual records, physical proof and modern examples of garbage, destructive behavior.
Sources for Caesar: uh he wrote about himself and some guys wrote about him, things were translated, retranslated, rewritten and rediscovered hundreds of years later, therefore it's so true!
Following your retarded logic: you're a massive faggot with a blown out asshole and you're transitioning right now, it's true simply because I said so and you won't deny it.

Augustus also wrote an autobiography but sadly it's lost to history which boggles my fucking mind, losing an autobiography of arguably the most important person to ever live.

Augustus didn’t matter more than any other emperor from any other empire, don’t be one of those pathetic rome fanboys

THIRTEEEEEEEEEEEEN!!!!

Yeah, luckily we can paint a decent historical picture of Augustus but so much on him that contributes to remaining record is also now lost.

There wasn't just his own autobiography but there were multiple biographies written by noted authors of the day which also did not survive.

If you think Caesar was good or admirable, you have a very limited understanding of history and should probably read more

Ask anyone today if they know about Bismarck and they'll ask if it's a pencil sharpener company.

He spent his twink years taking royal cock, “The Queen of Bithnyia”

he conquered Gaul (france). hitler conquered more.

You're one of those people that can't imagine what it would be like if you didn't eat breakfast this morning, aren't you?

He inherited very little in the way of wealth.

absolute lie
Read Parenti

DON'T YOU DARE CROSS THAT RIVER!

*crosses river in your path*

RUN! AHHHHH!

It's possible. But this was par for the course when it came to Roman political diatribes. They all accused each other of wildly scandalous behavior during the Republic period. Obviously, this sort of banter started to dry up more and more as the autocracy fell into place.

You can admire historical figures for their competence. Goodness has nothing to do with it.

It wasn’t an accusation from other politicians, it was well-known gossip promulgated by his own troops

Genghis khan is more admirable than ceasar

can't even come up with a single argument and doesn't deny being biological garbage

Close the tab and stop embarrassing yourself retard.

The only people concerned with categorizing ancient figures like Caesar into the "good and bad" dichotomy are idiots and leftists. Normal people are able to appreciate how different the world was at the time.

It absolutely was an accusation from other politicians that caught on with his troops, particularly when they were angry about something which was pretty common for a Roman legion at the time.

Yeah probably.

There's definitely an argument to be made there but why would you make it?

Why do you feel the need to console war two conquerors against one another like some toddler smashing race car toys together?
Anon Babble does this with everything and I really don't get it.

Trumps is basically a carbon copy of Nero. Which is hilarious.

Alexander was a literal faggot, product and perpetrator of incest, rapist, murderer, tyrant, and thief who inherited his father's wealth and hard work only to blow it all on some pointless conquering spree that fell apart and ultimately made zero impact on the world. Hellenism was well on its way before the king of barbarians blew his spunk all over everything.

Caesar was a man of the people, a tolerant and civilized reformer who cared about his people before his ego, came by his power through unmatched cunning, and put diplomacy before violence.

Trump was literally have a Twitter fight with a disabled teenage girl because she wanted him to cut down on polluting at 3 am in the morning while covid was killing 150,000 Americans a month

Trump is Nero

What's up with faggots thinking everyone is a faggot?

This.

be Caesar

promise plebs more food

change religious doctrine to accept emperors

take charge of uncle’s army and go kill barbarians for a decade

organize a parade for yourself to show the plebs how cool you are

start a civil war

get crowned emperor

get murked

Octavian was the based one, Julius was failson

Having*
AND REMEMBER
she was mentally disabled and won the argument and Trump started randomly insulting her

During the worst parts of covid.

Bismarck is legitimately child’s play compared to Caesar. Caesar conquered France without trains or guns while Bismarck couldn’t even keep the Kaiser from kicking his old ass out

whoah...admirable rage bait right here, brutus

Bismarck's impact was a 50 year "Reich"

Caesar's was a 1000 year empire and all of western European culture, nerd.

cockedgayvian was a bum who lost his legacy to his wife's son

caesar came all over his legacy (cleopatra) lel

start a civil war

b8

Caesar is one of those people that history revolves around. Their mere presence forces events to unfold in a certain way. He rolled a 20 on everything - heritage, force of will, skill in battle, political nous, charisma. And he applied it to its fullest as well.

Caesar was a man of the people, a tolerant and civilized reformer

That's definitely the role he played on TV but c'mon, he was clearly just another political opportunist.

He just thought the Republic was untidy and he could do better but he never really thought long-term and he never learned the lessons he should've garnered dealing with Rome's many client kings and conquered foes: that eventually, you'll get some fucking retards in yuor lineage that'll fuck everything up.

No goy, the jews would never rewrite history to make themselves the principle victims every single time, even though others suffered far more than they did, sometimes at their hands

Fact check: true

Another one is
The US economy lost a trillion plus dollars in 100 days due to tarriffs, lettung chinese spyware data harvest 70 million and Moody's informed trump a downgrade was coming
When asked about it
Trumps response was instead of 30 dolls you'll have to get 2

Trump is nero

muh US

muh Trump

Will you faggots just fuck off?

Yeah but those retards in your lineage are still less damaging than nonstop retard leadership getting voted in until destruction

Trump ordered the US military to assault legal peaceful protesters in DC... Including the church pastor.. at the church . For a photo op for his bibles.. and he held the bible upside down

Trump is Nero

Dude fuck off

b8

I forgot your kind id hypocrites. No politics unless it's ranting about libtards and leftists and diversity
Right you piece of fucking shit?

You need to read more, anon.

In fact, I want you to go read Josephus right now. You've heard of Josephus probably as Christians like to use him to prove the Bible historically correct at times.

But Josephus is far more interesting as an inside look at the internal psychology of Jews. This guy:

capitulated to the enemy during a siege

went over to their side, betraying his own people in a revolutionary war

goes on to make the entire Jewish people look like complete scumbags

and when he's with the Flavians as they besiege Jerusalem, Josephus spends the whole time kvetching and whining about how the jews on the wall are UNFAIRLY calling him a traitor and a coward

that they... just don't get it!

If you think this guy's histories, written by his own Jewish hand, were designed with the intention of giving people a favorable impression of them that could be used for manipulation, you are a fucking retard.

clearly just another political opportunist

Yeah he was pragmatic. But you don't spend 20 years constantly in and out of deep shit in ancient combat with the grunts in rough colonial backwaters and remain some old hoity toity patrician urbanite. It's not beyond the pale that Caesar actually believed in uplifting the common folk that he spent much of his life with.

Did you forget your meds or something?

angry senatorial hands typed this

boring incel faggot stuck in his room incapable of believing in excitement

lol

I know your type. You are a hypocrite. You also think asking questions is a way to make a point because you are a faggot who doesn't understand Socratic method

Meds, now

Octavianus fucking shits.

But you don't spend 20 years constantly in and out of deep shit in ancient combat with the grunts in rough colonial backwaters and remain some old hoity toity patrician urbanite.

That is 100% untrue though because Sulla had very famously done JUST THAT in the very recent past of Caesar's time.

Sulla was one of the first to bind an army to him with personal loyalty and use it like a bludgeon against Rome and he never did it in defense of the common man -- he was up against Marius who was the one grandstanding for the common folk.
Sulla was for the aristocracy and the Senate and he was such a great general and charismatic leader that tens of thousands of common men bound themselves up to him and forced Marius out.
And then Sulla retired and wined and whored himself to death in a country villa, the most hoity toity patrician urbanite of deaths.

So yeah, it's definitely possible it was all just opportunism.

God he absolutely killed it as Marc Antony, makes me like the guy more than any book has lmao

nero was actually based and only got slandered by faggot writers and aristocrats while being loved by the people

The Roman Empire is like Dinosaurs. 99.9% bullshit extrapolation and fanfic.

Yeah and Trump won in 2020
Trump is Nero.

the stuff I read about on the internet is true

the ancient manuscripts with provenance and hundreds of cross references throughout history are fake

This is (you)r brain not on anti-psychotics

are idiots and leftists

what's the difference?

No, you’re just using weird modernist logic. There’s a ton of knowledge of Rome because of the sheer wealth of archeological data as well as a huge amount of their writings (and they wrote a lot) being preserved and spread by monasteries and successor kingdoms

Shut up Cassius

Retard

history is fake!

Is this the new retard cope for people too lazy to read or learn anything?

Caesar was raped in the sweltering hot summer of 69 BC.

No dude clearly these well preserved writings and primary sources (all in their original Latin form too) aren’t real

We live in an age where people make shit up if they don't know then when called out demand information.
So they get attention and information for being shits.
Trump is Nero. This the same shit as Nero. "Nero was actually a good guy" is a several thousand years old contractrian conspiracy

Biden is Nero, trump is Marcus Aurelius, clearly

she wanted him to cut down on polluting at 3 am in the morning while covid was killing 150,000 Americans a month

what?

if reddit is right and we are npcs in le matrix, I wouldn't be surprised if he was a playable main character

Hes just saying shit to derail the thread, ignore him

Yeah, based on the acts of Sulla, he was of an entirely different character. Caesar never purged, never resorted to open violence except when his hand was forced, and worked hard to put an end to political violence after the war. People have different personalities, surprise surprise. You must judge people on their actions, not their words, and all evidence points to Caesar being a man of dignity and singular will. And you can't wave it away with "le propaganda" because Octavian has an absolute fuck ton of contemporary writing that details his psychopathy.

the military prodigy gigachad Pompey is portrayed as bumbling fool constantly stumlbing over his feet

the indomitable Cato, known for his mental and physical strength, is shown as boring old dotard and whiner

brilliant and brave Cicero, the stalwart defender of the republic is a sniverling coward trying to weasel his way into good graces of whichever power currently reigns

Marc Anthony, a drunkard hedonist midwit who only coasted on his ancient lineage, is shown to be a genius commander and ruthless man of fierce ambition

Augustus, known for his piety and conservative values, is an incestous fornicator and sexual deviant

Why is this ahistorical drivel held in such high regard?

Trumps Twitter activities from 5 years ago I see is forgotten.
Nero actually didn't play the fiddle why Rome burned by the way. I'm not asking Jeeves and you guys are either obscenely young or playing games

>the indomitable Cato, known for his mental and physical strength, is shown as boring old dotard and whiner

Cato the Swole

You're beyond naive if you think any of the old primary sources about public figures are objective in any way. They were all paid for puff pieces to assert legitimacy to whoever was popular (and unpopular) at the time.
There was no such thing as "independent journalism" or "fact checking".
People didn't sit around and get paid for writing objective editorials.
If anything was written down, it was with approval of whoever was in charge at the time because otherwise you'd get your shit pushed in instantly.
It's comical that people think in olden days you can sit down and write anything with no consequences or that you'd even get in a position where you're allowed to do so.
And if the author was writing "about himself" it was purely to showboat and boast about real or imagined achievements to try to raise or maintain their status.

I'm not demonizing Caesar for being a political opportunist, anon. If anything, I think he was acting as a man on his position would be expected to act in Roman high society at the time, so don't take this the wrong way.

He was definitely the best man for the job out of anyone else available at the time.
Do I think he was a true successor to the Gracchii and their populism? No.

brilliant and brave Cicero, the stalwart defender of the republic

Now THERE'S a fucking Roman from this time period with an over-inflated reputation in the historical record.

Historians love Cicero because he was a witty writer. The guy was a total fucking pussy and would shamelessly side with whoever he thought would win in any sort of contentious circumstance.

because Octavian has an absolute fuck ton of contemporary writing that details his psychopathy

they're mad cause he got shit done

Someone wrote it in a book it's definitely real!

Now THAT'S a cope. Politicans lie constantly now. What makes you think any surviving text from that era is anything but bullshit?

All of these except pompey are either 100% true or not even accurate to the show's portrayal. Cicero and Antonius were portrayed as both aspects that you mention in the show, which is accurate. Cicero's weaselly flip flopping bullshit is what got him killed. While not quite as debauched in the show, Octavian was a mistress taker and far from the model of morality he projected in the Lex Julia.

Regardless you're right about Rome being fucking shit and ahistorical. More attention paid to sex scenes than history. Sad because it's clear from the sets and historical scenes that there were a lot of people who really cared about an immersive historical drama working on the show.

Thank god for the trusty mainstream media today. I can rely on CNN to always let me know if information is false with real-time fact checking.

Pompey is constantly getting his dick figuratively sucked by everyone, the show portrays it more as age and being backed up into a corner than being a bumbling retard.
Catos actor is also in incredible shape for his age and is almost jacked for an old guy.
Cicero is a survivor but yeah he’s portrayed as a pussyfooting loser. I’ll give you that.
You got Marc Antony dead wrong though, he is shown for the entirety of the show as a himbo with perhaps two working brain cells who spends his free time whoring and drinking. The one point they give him is being a charismatic military leader, which he was.
I’ll also give you Augustus, him fucking his sister was silly and weird.
Yes but you’re also missing the fact that we don’t just have the puff pieces but also the critiques. We have such a wealth of sources that you can just as easy read Cicero as you could Caesar. A lot was preserved and written about by numerous contemporary sources, both for and against, and it’s frankly silly to be so dismissive of this and comparing it to the fact checking of today when even that is extremely flawed and imperfect, always at the whims of whoever in in charge of the fact checking

Fair enough anon. Sorry, I'm just a Caesar stan heavy.

Cicero was controlled opposition.

Cleopatra was descended from Ptolemy, who had no relation to Alexander

His legacy was destroyed shortly after his death with the fracturing of his empire and murder of his wife and child

putin?

It was just an example anon, whether Cicero was real or controlled opposition is kind of irrelevant to what I’m getting at

Augustus, known for his piety and conservative values, is an incestous fornicator and sexual deviant

This was much later in his life, brainlet. During this period, he was known as a fucking wild man pussy slayer.

When you read this letter, if you still have your health and strength, you will probably be dallying with Tertulla, or Terentilla, or Rufilla, or Salvia Titiscenia, or all of them together, for what do you care where, or upon whom you spend your manly vigour?

You do not sleep with Drusilla only.

"His friends used to behave like Toranius, the slave-dealer, in arranging his pleasures for him – they would strip mothers of families, or grown girls, of their clothes and inspect them as though they were up for sale

etc

He only became a prude when he was an old man and he was embarrassed of his daughter Julia's behavior.

my mistake anon, it seems Alexander just stationed his general there, there's no blood relation

fauxvid is fake, tranny

conspire to kill Alex due to his orientphilia and betrayal of Greek values

every single diadochi becomes a orientphile and betrays Greek values

explain the 150k American deaths by Covid per month then, a figure larger than any epidemic in history

old person dies for any reason

it’s counted as covid

qrd?

we don’t just have the puff pieces but also the critiques

the "critiques" were written by political opponents to ingratiate and support another faction. again, you can't view it objectively at all.
I'm not saying you can't take these writings as an insight as to what people were thinking, but to take them as objective fact at all is naive

I'm still not gonna trust senatorial propaganda

t. has never read a thing about Nero

With that line of thinking than Roman writings are about as objective as any other writings ever in history and today, no more true or fiction. If so, then singling out Rome as being 99% fiction is ridiculous since it’s no less and no more fiction than any other society or people

B8

He says speaking a degenerate accent of Latin in a society run by a law system based upon Latin law. Only the savage browns that live in the jungle aren’t today slaves to Rome

he wasnt based

explains why hes based

anon i...

literally never did anything for the first 35 years of his life

thats based in and of itself, plus he unfucked the calendar you ungrateful nigger

The Roman armies of Ceaser used to brag about Caesar’s sexual conquests

“every woman's man and every man's woman” they took pride in there general’s motto of every holes a goal! You find jokes about it on sling bullets and shit.

If he was a main character why did his story wait till he was approaching 40 and him having a panic attack that spires his midlife crisis? He was a fuck up until then

Nah I believe he truly was an idealist. You see hints of him being traumatized by the proscriptions of Sulla. You have to recognize he grew up in an era where the political system of the republic was twisted by a man who was essentially a Roman Stalin and lived b terror through his youth. I think his lack of proscriptions and sparing of defeated opponents shows he was actually trying to stabilize the political system. He was an arrogant asshole willing to commit war crimes for popular support to achieve his aims but I think he was an idealist

Nero was so popular 3 people pretended to be him to rally popular crowds in attempts to control the empire. He was a good leader to everyone except the senate and his lovers.

falling for entry level propaganda 2000 years later

I agree that he was absolutely trying to have a stabilizing force on the Republic -- but let's be clear about this: he wanted to stabilize it by destroying it and replacing it with his own rule. And just because he did not initially declare proscriptions does not mean that he was incapable of doing so. We simply will never know because of his untimely death. Probably not though, I suppose.

But I think Sulla is somewhat unfairly demonized over Gaius Marius who I believe is specifically responsible for raising the political stakes and fanning the fires of discontent left in the wake of the Gracchii's deaths (the senators who killed the Gracchii were truly to blame for all of these problems, let's be honest). He quite literally stole Sulla's commission against Mithradates through pure corruption and manipulation and brought things to a head.

I think many a Roman would've done exactly what Sulla did when he marche don Rome the first time.

Cicero got killed because he pissed off Flavia, the female crime boss and richest person in Rome. She was the brains behind Antony. The minute he and her break up over Cleopatra he starts losing.

Cicero mocked he in a trial years before so she had his tongue nailed to a table

I'm immune to propaganda unlike you

that's why I believe unilaterally that everything in primary source documents is fake propaganda

I’m not sure he did, the legal maneuvering of Cato and Cicero ment he had to stay on military campaign or hold political office to have executive immunity. The two of them backed Pompey and Caesar into conflict and legally forced Caesar to attack Rome or he’d be executed once negotiations broke down because he’d lose his executive immunity. Pompey was trying to stop this shit while at the same time trying to keep Roman law functioning. He has to kill Caesar once he crossed the rubicon but his own allies forced the civil war with malicious threats of prosecution.

Caesar if he planned to be king would not have launched the Parthian campaign to justify his continuing proconsul executive immunity and leave Rome proper. The assassins rushed the murder to get him before he returned the rule of law to the senate and left on a campaign that most people expected he would die on to remove legitimacy from his reforms

I guess we are all speaking Vulgar Latin, except the German. I’m counting the English as something like 40% of the English language is French at this point

The senate of the Grachii era and the Grachii were at fault. They brothers were making reforms that theough the patronage system and their breaking of Roman legal precedent would lead to at the very least the family being the main force in an oligarchy, but the reforms that the brothers were pushing were needed for the Roman system to survive after all the land and semi citizens it acquired from fighting the Punic wars. If the senate oligarchs would make the reforms themselves the Roman republic wouldn’t have broken down but the rich bastards wouldn’t give a penny to any of the non senator classes.

most romans believed he was based. the difference is they also believed brutus and cicero were based but the modern western person is not capable of this nuanced view only "good vs evil"

believing cucked "nu-history" shit about "actually it was a strong woman doing everything!"

I bet you believe Livia was the brains behind Augustus too

T. Pompey

What? No you absolute moron it actually happened. Fulvia was hated at the time for being an uppity cunt. We literally have sling bullets from Octavian’s army that insult her for being the Roman equivalent of a bulldyke and a limerick young Octavian wrote about her that implies she tried to fuck him after Marc Antony and her broke up in revenge. She was a real political force in the civil wars post Caesars assassination, funded Marc Antony and there are actual documents about her inspecting Antony’s troops while holding her kids during the time he retreated to the east. Read a damn book.

Antony’s troops were loyal to her not him because she had been paying them and she was the ex wife of two of the richest most politicaly important men before she married Marc

English uses many Latinate words but it is still a Germanic language in its grammar. Taking terminology from other languages doesn't really change what sort of language it is unless it becomes different structurally.

Is there any kino with the same caliber of portrayals of Caesar or Marc Antony?