Commander, I said LAUNCH TORPEDOES

he Jem'Hadar just straight up went in and killed everyone

writing the Maquis out off-screen is hilarious considering how much the writers tied them into the initial story of both post-TNG shows
did they even address this on Voyager? half the crew were dedicated Maquis that only joined Starfleet under coercion, you'd think a detail like "all your friends were murdered while you were traveling home" would have come up at some point once they got reconnected with Earth in the later seasons

did they even address this on Voyager?

It was a small subplot in one of the episode. I think Chakotay and Torres got sad for that single episode and it was forgotten after that.

well... shit.

be in charge of super secret Maquis cell

let not one but two agents infiltrate your cell

one of them is a Vulcan and the other a Cardie you occasionally stick your penis into

Problem?

What's always bugged me is how his entire role was telling Janeway she's going too far this time, but he'll follow her loyaly anyway no matter what.
He immediately and entirely embraced being a federation first officer, and just acted as her impotent walking rulebook guy

I enjoy Voyager but well written it was not

what if a virus … but big?

somehow that works

The only scarcity is energy and specific real estate, nobody really needs to do anything.

Who carried the show harder, Garak or Dukat?

Dukat. Garak was interesting, and had some nice moments, but Dukat was living charisma.

Dukat, he's the true mirror of Sisko. One needs statues to be remembered, the other just wants DS9 to operate the same as any other day, even if he's a prophet deadbeat dad.

Garak's great for the rest of the story & I remember him as Bashir's "friend" more than O'Brien but Dukat is part of the main narrative.

spends all of TNG itching to blow shit up

never gets allowed to blow shit up by Picard

DS9 gets direct order to blow shit up by Sisko

has to be told twice

did his balls drop off?

Worf’s arc is pretty funny if you think about it

raised by humans, unrealistic klingaboo view of his heritage

gets repeatedly exposed to the hypocrisy of actual Klingon culture

well, I guess I’ll just be more human

becomes a giant pussy

What’s the lesson?

He was court martialed earlier for blowing up that one Klingon ship. I'm guessing he wasn't too keen on going through that again.

I get how they refashioned Voyager as TNG a few seasons in but it really annoyed me how they didn't play more with the idea that half the crew were effectively enemy conscripts there against their will

could the kazon take the ferengi?

From a tech standpoint? Probability not. One on one in a fistfight? Yes.

today i learned about ectotherms

lots of alien species share their views of the federation as just that, I think the writers were relatively self aware when it came to this. I don't remember who but someone compared them to the borg.

One of the best little interactions in the entire series:
youtube.com/watch?v=3bskhLaJYd8

Quark's speech on root beer as Nog goes off to Starfleet Academy is quite nice.
youtube.com/watch?v=6VhSm6G7cVk

The most underrated episode is Schisms.

They did address it on Voyager. The first time they get messages from the Alpha quadrant they learn that all the Marquis are dead. Then several months later there's a whole episode where B'elanna's survivor's guilt has gotten so bad that she's basically trying to kill herself.

who but someone compared them to the borg.

eddington after his betrayal s4e22

The Dubsminion has endured for over 20.000 /trek/ threads and will continue to endure long after all of Nu-Trek is decanonized and forgotten by zoomers and boomers alike

ATTENTION Anon Babble ACTRESS POSTERS

i'm sorry, episode 21

worm hole status: mined

no you little zesty black buck of a colored ass nigger faggot, this is NOT an occupation!

Did Weyoun go too far here?

"where's your friend NOG, Nig?"

it truly was a different time

The truth is most sci-fi writers hope, one way or another, that some kind of totalitarian regime will eventually win out and the human question will finally be answered. They just differ on what specific conclusion they want to reach from the typical poltard on simple superficial shit like whether it's army guys, racist guys, artist guys or feelsgood diplomats who will be in charge of everything, but they all want ONE human race living in ONE way and nothing else.

bombs cardassian hospitals

is cute

he fires torpedos at innocent colonists

It was the whole crux of that "training simulation" Tuvox wrote. He expected the Maquis to hijack the ship any day now, and played scenarios on what to do. But when the crew instead meshed together, he saw the training sim itself as a wedge that could harm crew relations, so he deleted it. Or so he thought. But the crew's fate was sealed when they brought in people from the Equinox.

Romulans are Roman, Cardassians are some kind of German

terrorizes my cock

It’s also easier to write humanity as a singular government with a unified culture instead of the patchwork mishmash we have now, because then it’s less to keep track of when you’d rather focus on “HUMANS! FUCK YES!” than “those darn muslims blew up the moon again!”

Compare the Maquis' introduction in DS9 to the earlier TNG episode that deals with terrorism and freedom fighters, The High Ground. The difference of approach is insane. It makes a halfhearted attempt at sympathy in the beginning, but that all goes out the window in the second half once Picard makes his moral declaration that any terrorism is bad no matter what, and then the Enterprise just collaborates with the police state to hunt down the resistance and save Crusher without any ethical reflection whatsoever.
By contrast, when Sisko comes to learn the stakes of the border conflict and has to face the treasonous betrayal of his old friend, he is clearly torn between his sympathies for the federation colonists and his duties to Starfleet, and while he ultimate chooses the latter he's still deeply unsettled about it. DS9 allowed these dicier no-win situations to marinade while TNG often felt pressured to pick a side before the 45 minutes were up.

Cardassians

depending on the episode theyre either nazis or israelis. lets not forget the existence of guantanamo bay and other blacksites for torture designated for different shades of browns.

I think it was out of spite for the Voyager writers pussying out on the whole premise of their show and doing nothing substantial with the Maquis. The writers and producers of both TNG and DS9 went to a lot of effort to coordinate the Maquis story in the lead up to Voyager, and it amounted to basically nothing.

mishmash we have now, because then it’s less to keep track of when you’d rather focus on “HUMANS! FUCK YES!” than “those darn muslims blew up the moon again!”

i mean, you still have that with the aliens, just on a galactic scale. it's also more interesting and you have more freedom to tell your stories. nutrek just made humans bad again instead of translating the issues they see in the world to skiffy or science fiction. stpicard was the worst offender regarding that

a unified culture instead of the patchwork mishmash we have now,

Oh brother, you are one clueless man.
We don't have a "patchwork mishmash", we have the sloppy consequences of multiple attempts to social engineer exactly the kind of utopia that Star Trek wanted to show us. Most writers don't want to write about it not because it's difficult, but because it means having to acknowledge that their own side is capable of tremendous failure or being waylaid by people far more politically cunning than they can ever hope to be.

the whole trapped in the delta quadrant and rationing also felt underwritten

Dukat wasn't even technically a villain in the early seasons. Sure his smugness and moral ambiguity were an occasional foil for Sisko and the gang, but he was more often used in seasons 2 and 3 as a begrudging ally who was committed to good relations with the Federation and may ultimately be a decent person beneath the ruthless exterior. While Waltz was the point of no return for Dukat becoming a one dimensional comic book supervillain, the change had been set in motion long before.

youtu.be/VRXvOgn8cOw

if they had played this straight it would have saved the show

Sisqo was excellent. What more do you want?

True, I'm pretty sure that the instant they decided to have him betray the Alpha Quadrant in order to make himself the dictator of Cardassia, it was already set in stone that he would be a main villain.

This episode is literally just real life now. Schizophrenia has become a lifestyle choice.

wow she's saying a lot of words, but all I can do is pay attention to her amazing tits in that tight outfit, weird way to make a tv show

René Marie Murat Auberjonois was born June 1, 1940, in Manhattan, New York City.[2] His father, Swiss-born Fernand Auberjonois, was a Cold War-era foreign correspondent and Pulitzer Prize-nominated writer. Auberjonois' mother, Princess Laure Louise Napoléone Eugénie Caroline Murat, was a great-great-granddaughter of Joachim Murat (one of Napoleon's marshals and King of Naples during the First French Empire), and his wife—Napoleon's youngest sister—Caroline Bonaparte

Joachim

Obvious jew.

Yeah, they made him a delusional narcissist who craved power and status. Though to be fair, the Dominion plucking a disgraced and disgruntled former military leader out of obscurity and installing him as the puppet ruler of their vassal is probably the most realistic thing in the entire arc.

reminder that transporters are killing and cloning you

oh yeah, joachim MURAT. the most jewish name ever lol. middle eastern for sure!

Lunch torpedoes?
Don't mind if I do!

its more of a copy paste situation

And?
The individual is a memetic fragment of the Federation humanitarian ideology. As long as each "individual" continues to play the part of the great, evolved society that is the future of mankind, there is no reason to feel loss or anguish over the function of teleportation. It transports the individual between locations where they can actualise the greatest potential of the humanitarian future, and carry on the beliefs and values for the benefit of all. To hold one's own life in greater esteem than the noble bright future of our present is a crime in and of itself, and that is why Tuvix, you must fucking die right now you ugly piece of shit.

I love how Sisko thinks he's finally broke bad on In the Pale Moonlight, ignoring the fact that he fucking gassed a whole planet just to settle a personal score one year earlier.

has never actually visited anywhere they don’t speak the same language he does

Thanks for your input retard

It's a biblical name, and back in those days it was extremely common for people in western christian countries to name their children (especially sons) after bible characters, sometimes picking the most obscure and archaic sounding names just to seem special.

Isn't that basically the Kobayashi Maru test writ large?

Everyone this side of the world speaks English. And even the ones that don't were expected to live by the same rules, the same humanitarian laws, the same conventions for war, international cooperation, freedom of religion, gender equality, value of human life. The fact that large portions of the world decided to say fuck you to that and embrace nationalism, fundamentalism or state capitalism instead has had the liberal voices of TNG's time as completely baffled as the insolence of the Maquis did the Federation - and they still haven't accepted that psychos who they THOUGHT were their allies in those goals were in fact the most capricious and ethno-statist ones of all, our own real life Bajorans if you will.

Sisko using biogenic weapons didn't help him win the moral high-ground

one billion people are representative of eight billion people

The point is that we’re an extremely disparate, culturally fractured species. The Federation wouldn’t let us join in our current state, nor should they. Your stubborn willful blindness to this proves my point.

Truth is that the Federation IS better than most of the other options in each quadrant of the galaxy. Let's not pretend that the Romulan paranoid police state is more ethically advanced or that the Klingon Empire doesn't cannibalize itself when it doesn't have an external enemy to fight. A lot of Quark's and Garak's repartee makes valid points and criticisms, but is also flavored with sour grapes about their own cultures being second or third rate powers compared to the big three of Federation/Klingons/Romulans.

psychos

lol. lmao. what psychos are you talking about? religious or gender freedom psychos? both abused concepts in the name of liberty (cults, minors etc). its not as easy and black and white, us vs. them. any form of utopia is makebelieve. humans are stupid, especially many of them.

at some point they just forgot about it

That’s just like, your opinion man

The Federation wouldn’t let us join in our current state, nor should they.

Oh no, too bad for us! We have to figure out how to homogenize ourselves on our own BEFORE they force us to live in their ethically and culturally calcified macrosphere! Otherwise they would have to violate their ideals and force us to behave the way they feel is correct.
You refered to it earlier as a "patchwork mishmash". There is no patchwork. There was never a sincere attempt to make a patchwork, just empty words carried by useful idiots and opportunists. Right now, there are multiple cultural strata in the world, but they are separated, and each is becoming more and more content with isolating itself from the rest in order to slowly stagnate in its own brand of political correctness while waiting for the others to die first.

Real life Bajorans. Israel and their diaspora. Does it need to be spelled out for you?

well either that or starfleet knows that they will be held responsible for what they do and are trying to clan up the mess before it drags the federation back into conflict

I’m not the same guy and you’re clearly unhinged. Don’t (you) me or my Nog again.

Fuck off then retard.

Funny that Eddington gave Sisko that whole speech about being similar to the Borg while stealing humanitarian aid the Federation was providing to a former enemey.

You first.

The only few redeeming qualities of the last few seasons of DS9 are Kira in a Starfleet uniform and Legate Damar.

Bajorans are interchangeable with israelis and palis or jews and whoever really. i dont remember israel having terror cells

they force us to live in their ethically and culturally calcified macrosphere

When has that ever happened? Pretty sure the Fed has just rescinded any offers to join up when they don't like the culture they're dealing with. Bajor refused to join the Federation but the Fed didn't throw a shitfit and force them into the fold, even though it would have been easy and advantageous to do so.

former enemey.

someone they tried and did assimilate in the end! eddington was proven correct.

When? As of DS9 Cardassia was betrayed by the Dominion and left to its own devices after the peace treaty.

youtu.be/8zbPYWrM69Y

Mind the carpet, thanks

Ok, I'll try again, slower this time.

Oh no, too bad for us!

This is a sarcastic line. It indicates that I am not particularly sorry that the Federation wouldn't want us as part of their utopia.

We have to figure out how to homogenize ourselves on our own

This is the pre-requisite to being "ready" for being part of the Federation that you speak of, to arrive to the conclusions that they have reached and accept that it is the correct way to live. Often not independently for space-flight capable cultures, since for those the Federation has no problem sending as many incentives to be converted into their fold as they can.

BEFORE they force us to live in their ethically and culturally calcified macrosphere!

Once you do join the Federation, they won't respect any decisions you make which will deviate from their rules and laws. Maybe coming to a similar world-view as them would have been just a step in your species' evolution, something that could lead to a different ideology given enough time and experience to reconsider. But now you are in the Federation, and the Federation is paradise according to the Federation. So they simply won't let you leave.

Otherwise they would have to violate their ideals and force us to behave the way they feel is correct.

This is referring to the innate farce of the Federation in that even though they do not force themselves on anyone, it is in actuality what they want to do. If NOBODY in the world of Star Trek ever converted to the Federation willingly, the Federation would either be forced to compromise on its own cherished values of freedom or conquer their enemies and force them to live out the exact pantomime of utopia they have set out. Understanding that underlying essence of reductive moral ideology is exactly what the discussion in this thread is about. If you can't grasp that the positive consequences of the Federation does not absolve them of their intent to reduce mankind to pure moralfaggotry, you're an NPC.

The real redpill is that it's actually based to either manipulate or make everyone live like they're perfect, civilized and morally good people and anyone who disagrees with that is brown. It makes for an aesthetically pleasing, clean reality and that is the only thing that should matter to anyone with good taste.

MY LEG

Low IQ

Such a comfy design, like grandpa's Lincoln Town Car.

humanity has yet to evolve to its last form. the trick is not to be let us dragged down by the inferior specimen.

I'm not a tailor. Not for the moment, anyway.

This is the pre-requisite to being "ready" for being part of the Federation that you speak of, to arrive to the conclusions that they have reached and accept that it is the correct way to live. Often not independently for space-flight capable cultures, since for those the Federation has no problem sending as many incentives to be converted into their fold as they can.

Ok. So what?

Once you do join the Federation, they won't respect any decisions you make which will deviate from their rules and laws. Maybe coming to a similar world-view as them would have been...

Proof? Aside from the Federation/Cardassian/Maquis border disputes, but even then the Fed ceded those colonies to the Cardassians because the colonists didn't want to move. That contradicts your point about the Fed not letting you leave.

This is referring to the innate farce of the Federation in that even though they do not force themselves on anyone, it is in actuality what they want to do. If NOBODY...

Proof? Feds got their shit rocked pretty hard by the Borg and then by the Dominion which forced out some more unsavory aspects of the Federation and Starfleet, but after the war they focused on rebuilding and began to refocus on exploration and diplomacy. Bajor still hadn't joined the Federation by the end of DS9 and the Federation respected that. The war would have given them perfect pretense to occupy Bajor and the wormhole in the name of protecting their utopia, but they didn't take that dark path.

pure moralfaggotry

What is that and why is it bad?

Not sure why you're seething at the idea of a unifying government that has standards of conduct for its members.

Proof

Ok, so you are an NPC then.

About 10 years ago, during summer break from school, I watched DS9 from start to finish.
One of the most rewarding television experiences I've ever had. Bashir inspired me to pursue a medical career.

Not Persuaded by Chicanery? Correct! Post some proof because each point of your long-winded, impotent anarchism is totally reliant on begging the question.

Good for you anon. Are you working in medicine now?

People here are dog shit at discussing or even thinking about anything, it's just constant redditorisms.

cool story bro

kazon ships are a lot bigger than I thought

You’re too young to remember Mosad abducting former Nazis, violating the sovereignty of the countries they were living in and extracting them back to Israel extrajudicially for a show trial. But then so am I, so it must have never happened.

Yes. Every Halloween in the pharmacy I always stroll in a DS9 med officer uniform.

They stole all their shit from the Trabe

Based.

I half-agree. The problem is twofold:
1. Writing complex politics is hard, and authoritarian politics are simple on a surface level. Which they aren't, but it seems that way. It's the same reason why fantasy writers always either have "monarchy" or "republic", not realizing both are hopelessly complicated. Any given political system is, really.
2. Scifi writers want to write about utopias, which often require some level of authoritarianism to make happy. Like Starship Troopers is supposed to be "the world's militaries all got sick and tired of liberal's shit and formed a one world government that promises equality and representation for all so long as you do some kind of public service", but this is usually translated as "fascism". Because it kind of is, even if it kind of isn't.

but this is usually translated as "fascism"

It never was until the movie.

Right now, there are multiple cultural strata in the world, but they are separated, and each is becoming more and more content with isolating itself from the rest in order

This clearly isn't true if you look at world events and the web of alliances and trade networks. America doing its best to untangle itself and failing miserably has only highlighted our interconnectedness. Frankly at this point there's no going back and the only way forward is to go all in on the network. The species is doomed otherwise.

I agree, which is why I said "it kind of isn't."

Because it kind of is

Starship Troopers is entirely fascistic. There's no two ways about it. When a military junta that is completely unaccountable to the masses is running the government and the only method of advancement without remaining a second class citizen is military service, that's fascism.

i dont remember israel having terror cells

On July 22, 1946, just ten months after the end of World War II, the King David Hotel in Jerusalem was bombed by the Jewish Irgun terrorist group, led by Menachem Begin, who would later become the Prime Minister of Israel. At the time, the British Empire still controlled the region known as Palestine, and Jewish nationalist groups sought to establish a Jewish state in the area. To achieve this goal, Jewish militant organizations operated terrorist cells within British-controlled Palestine, culminating in the King David Hotel attack, which killed 91 people. The bombing was intended to pressure the already weakened British Empire to withdraw from Palestine, paving the way for the creation of a Jewish state.

It's not.

military junta that is completely unaccountable to the masses is running the government

It is accountable, though.

the only method of advancement without remaining a second class citizen is military service

That's not true, in the novel you can do multiple other kinds of service. The point is that you have to do 'something'.
And neither of those would be fascism even if they were true in the novel.
Fascism requires several socio-economic concepts like organic economics and the dominance of state aligned corporations which are not present in the Starship Troopers book. What the novel tries to portray is a combination of Spartan pathos (military first!) with Athenian democracy (but everyone who serves gets a vote!), and the result is not fascism.

At oh eight hundred hours, station time, the Romulan Empire formally declared war against the Dominion. They have already struck fifteen bases along the Cardassian border. So, this is a huge victory for the good guys. This may even be the turning point of the entire war. There's even a 'Welcome to the Fight' party tonight in the wardroom. So I lied, I cheated, I bribed men to cover the crimes of other men. I am an accessory to murder. But most damning thing of all, I think I can live with it. And if I had to do it all over again, I would. Garak was right about one thing. A guilty conscience is a small price to pay for the safety of the Alpha Quadrant, so I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it.

I can live with it.

Computer, erase that entire personal log.

was sisko wrong here?

israel didint exist in 1946

Yes, for the right reasons.

In The Pale Moonlight might be one of my favourite episodes of any TV show ever.

They have already struck fifteen bases

Checked, but yeah he was probably in the wrong to some degree based on that line, you can't just wake up and do that, the Romulans had to have ships in place, targets selected, everyone knew where they were going and what to do, they were always going to enter the war. They wanted the war to end after Starfleet had been bled some more, so they'd be left as the sole power in the region, instead of being forced in early and the quadrant being bi or tri polar again. In terms of pure morality, he was probably wrong. In terms of Federation interest, he did well. Garak probably saved his own people from a Romulan occupation too.

Some people watched that episode and thought Avery was acting like an uppity Nagus

That Nagus better know his place

Why that Nagus chasing me all around the Badlands

Imagine taking orders from a Nagus

We never shouldve allowed that Nagus on the Station

Will Hentai even be remembered in the 24th Century? Would there be any remnants? I mean Nagasaki and Hiroshima were spit in an ocean compared to WWIII, iirc.

Odo will remind them.

Kill Kang and Koloth immediately instead of having them stick around with Kor for at least one more episode