Star Wars never recovered from Rian Johnson
Star Wars never recovered from Rian Johnson
Whoever made the call to defend this shitshow instead of admitting fault was the one who fucked everything up. Star Wars could have recovered from a bad Star Wars movie, but insisting a bad one wasn't bad was unrecoverable.
You don't climb the corporate ladder by admitting fault. You push the fault down the chain, or in the magical way of the 21st century, you push it onto the consumer.
It did with the Mandalorian S1.
There is no excuse for pushed it down the shit bucket again after that.
Johnson seemed to like it.
That was hilarious, winning that goodwill back only to piss it all down their leg the next year.
You don't climb the corporate ladder by admitting fault. You push the fault down the chain
WTF?
This is unironically my favorite episode of the sequel trilogy. Which isn't saying a lot
I'd argue JJ Abrams is the one who actually fucked it with Force Awakens. Last Jedi isn't great but a lot of its issues are from things Rian inherited from Force Awakens. And with what TFA is he had two choices: either essentially do Empire again or do something else. He was fucked either way.
Noooooooo, don't shit all over my manchild space fantasy schlock, Rian!!!
He was based for giving you what you needed and not what you wanted, which was Luke swinging his saber.
Star Wars never recovered from George Lucas left to his own devices.
except the last five minutes of the finale of mando S2 where luke swings his saber was far better and more memorable than anything in TLJ
It was a video game tier scene only hyped up by the aforementioned manchildren.
It had zero artistic integrity or value. Pure fan service.
it's not just rian johnson. we have entire generations who can't make good films and the old guard have lost their touch as well
you need to recall that the recovery was at its peak after the season 2 finale. only after that everything went down the drain for good
Star Wars was destined to be redundant.
Star Wars had certainly never had callbacks, returning characters, or hype moments before that, you're absolutely right. It's also not like the entire main thread of that season was returning Grogu to the Jedi or anything.
It had zero artistic integrity or value. Pure fan service.
I better not catch you trying to defend the prequel trilogy.
No one needed The Last Jedi.
There was a ton of hype and speculation going out of season 2 following Luke's return, and I remember a shit ton of "WE'RE BACK" videos and reaction videos of people losing their shit to see Luke again (even if it was kind of a shitty deepfake version).
At the end of the day, Kennedy couldn't handle that people had rejected her pet project Rey, and that people had gotten so excited for Luke, so she ordered it to be reversed. I'm sure it also had something to do with them wanting to keep the merchandising gravy train going, not considering that Grogu's story was done, and he would be annoyingly overstaying his welcome after that point. I don't know what Kennedy did all those years acting as "producer" for Lucas and Spielberg, but it definitely wasn't being involved in the creative process.
Lucas fucked it with the prequels but it could have been saved if Disney went back to basics and told an honest set of sequels not totally trashing, well everything. But they didnt. Now here we are.
Good. Star Wars as a universe is retarded and shouldn't have gone past the first three movies. Even KOTOR2 mocks this two dimensional aspect of the force. Without Jedi/Sith, the universe is boring. With Jedi/Sith, the universe boils down to the most basic aspects of good/evil.
Watching the sequels on Cytube on sunday in kinoplex, someone was very upset on how the ice foxes were an attempt to sell toys and became adamantly defensive of how the prequels didn't try to sell merchandise "like that"
Funniest shit really.
manchild space fantasy
i hope merlin comes back from the dead and kills all you idiots
what space opera novels have you read
It wasn't intended to.
TFA
all the gains in ROTJ are for absolutely nothing
a droid that happens to be carrying the plans of the super-death star escapes into the sands of a not-Tattooine desert planet
out of all the people on the whole planet, said droid chances upon a girl who just happens to be the bestest jedi ever and is an expert at every last thing she does
super-bestest-Jedi chances upon a black guy who deserted the not-empire space-nazis, and make their escape in a spaceship that by all chances of coincidence of all the spaceships in the galaxy, happens to be the Millenium Falcon. And the power is turned on and ready to go just because.
super-bestest-Jedi and black guy chance upon a bigger ship that just happens to have Han Solo and Chewbacca in it, and they're back to being lowlfie smugglers. Also Kanji Club.
they go to a planet that has not-Yoda who this time is a wise woman. She also has without explanation Luke's saber that he lost on a fucking gas-giant planet
from Han meets back up with Leia who's back to being a rebel commander. Leia tells Rey she's special because of girl power.
they attack the not-death-star
they do a trench run just like in ANH, then fly inside just like in ROTJ
Han dies because Harrison Ford hates Han
Darth Emo fights Rey who never used a lightsaber in her life, yet is instantly better at it than a trained Sith lord who's been training since he was in diapers.
everyone blames Rian Johnson for SW ging to shit.
Why didn't Rian attempt to do anything interesting with the shallow stuff JJ left him, and instead made a "haha Star Wars sucks!!!" sequel?
Why wasn't there any communication between directors?
I was well into my teens by the time the prequels came around, and even at the time rolled my eyes at Lucas' obvious attempts to throw in characters from the OT so they could be included in merchandising, and show up in trailer shots.
Darth Vader built C-3PO
R2D2 just so happened to be Darth Vader's personal pet droid, and was involved in practically every major event in the Clone Wars
Boba Fett went from a random but effective bounty hunter in cool looking armor to a central figure in the Empire's rise to power
Chewbacca was a general in the Kashyyk military, and was best buds with Yoda
All of those things are cool though
If you were seven years old when you watched the prequels for the first time, maybe.
That's the point. Good and evil are real and binary, even IRL. It's all Aryans vs Semites.
If you have an IQ of a nigger, sure.
black guy leaves the empire because he hates killing, so he joins the rebels where he does lots of killing
Yeah, I was.
There was for the ending. JJ wanted to end his movie on Luke having a bunch of floating rocks around him like he was going super saiyan, but Rian told him no because of his "Luke has cut himself off from the force" idea.
Boba Fett
Errrm acksually its JANGO Fett, who is Boba Fett's father and totally not meant to harp on the nostalgia that is Boba Fett via the armor and job as a bounty hunter.
To save Star Wars, just start adapting all the best material from the EU.
There's no excuse not to. Disney bought the IP for billions, why not use the material?
just start adapting all the best material from the EU.
But they did adapt elements from the EU. Palpatine being a clone is just the Dark Empire comic plotline from the early 90s.
what was the point of Phasma
Cherry picking is not adapting.
Yeah, but don't just steal ideas in otherwise unrelated stories, I mean actually adapt one of the stories, like the Darth Plagueis novel.
It started with episode 7 being a shitty rehash of the original. It's all thanks to redlettermedia
The last neck was the last good Star Wars movie but no one wants to talk about that because Luke Skywalker being fallible and stricken with grief and shame hurts Star Wars fans fee fees
Point is EU is filled to the brim with retarded elements. Good ideas in the EU were hard to come by and its usually those ideas that were remembered while the thousands of others were forgotten. The problem is ultimately how those ideas were formed and if they could be cobbled together in the format of a movie trilogy while also catering to your average joe throughout the world and not just weird shutins, which is what Star Wars did.
It's all thanks to redlettermedia
You have to an idiot to think this.
You have to an idiot to think this.
Ok it was also the fault of disney trying to recapture lightning in a bottle instead of making their own thing.
nothing happens in the last jew
it doesn't advance the plot
8 does nothing to build upon 7 and 9 does nothing to build upon 8.
What an utter failure as a narrative.
It COULD have been interesting, but it was all facilitated by Luke acting like a retard to start with. We're supposed to believe that the man who willingly gave himself up to the Empire (and all but certain death) because he was convinced that he could bring Darth fucking Vader back from the dark side is the same guy who decided to murder his nephew in his sleep because he was a bit angsty.
If Rian thought everything in TFA sucked, why didn't he take any of it in an interesting direction, and instead killed it all off?
a good writer would have done something with the flimsy premise jewjew starts with
rian just erases it all and then acted smug about it
Do this day, I cannot get over how hard they fumbled the Mandalorian after season 2. It was the best thing to come out of Disney Star Wars, and a great ending to the season. Honestly, the show could have ended there and it would have been fine and revered for all time.
But then they couldn't help themselves by having Grogu and Luke in the Book of Boba Fett. And even then, it was somewhat salvageable. What I couldn't excuse was them half-assing and rushing to a reunion between Grogu and Mando outside of Mando's own fucking show. They didn't give the development or the character's any time to breathe or grow during their absence from one another.
The two having to say goodbye at the end of season 2 may very well be one of the most emotional moments in any Star Wars' product, so butchering their reunion in such a fashion was just so disappointing. And then people tune into Season 3 of Mando and wonder why the two are back together? Just completely baffling decisions all around post-season 2. It was so disheartening that I never even tuned into season 3.
He was based for giving you what you needed
Vitriolic contempt for the entire franchise and anyone that is a fan of it?
i am good everyone unlike me is evil!
sounds pretty evil desu
George Lucas left to his own devices.
George was always left to his own devices. George had complete creative control over every film in the entire series.
Do this day, I cannot get over how hard they fumbled the Mandalorian after season 2.
i can. in fact i stopped watching right after season 2 because i had a gut feeling it would go down th drain. it's not like season 2 was flawless. all the portends were there
Honestly, the show could have ended there and it would have been fine and revered for all time.
it did for me
I agree. Rian isn’t the true evil however it’s Kathleen Kennedy and the evil nose people at Disney that jumped into creating these movies with no real time line. They raced into making these with money in mind first rather than creating an actual story worth telling.
The parts that are considered the best of Star Wars are the parts where George was occupied with other things. George was busy with Indy and a divorce when Empire and Jedi were in production, so he let guys like Irvin Kirschner and Lawrence Kasdan take the more hands-on positions.
I liked TFA when it came out. I acknowledged that it was essentially just a rehash of ANH but I gave it a pass because I figured Disney were just playing it safe after their multi-BILLION dollar purchase and it was essentially just proof of concept and all the really wild and interesting shit would be coming next. I was naive in retrospect.
ep7 raped the franchise to death, ep8 was just the rotting carcass.
Palpatine being a clone
You fought in the Clone Wars too?
Correct. My oldest Aunt/Uncle were 31-33 when Star Wars came out in 1977 and they described it as something that had this universal appeal to anyone below the age of 40. Part of this was the cutting edge special effects and the other part being that it tickled the shit out of their member berries (due to Star Wars obvious inspirations) as they were in same age group as George Lucas.
And that's why you can't replicate Star Wars. It pioneered modern visual effects in a time when they were few and sparse while hearkening to a very simple beat of a heroes journey.
Disney bought Star Wars without really understanding that its structurally a very boring universe because the overall plot was built around that trilogy. In the same manner how scifi worlds in videogame franchises like Halo or Mass Effect were built around a plot within a trilogy of games and going past that once the threat of said plot is resolved leaves a very jarring aftertaste.
No, that was EP1 when they introduced a cartoon rabbit who steps in shit. Episode 7's fault was that it was trying to be a New Hope without understanding why A New Hope worked. That and the basic outline for the sequels was never a thing and they just winged it hoping that the same method of building Marvel movies (directors doing their own things) would somehow work for a straight forward trilogy. JJ Abrams wasn't even meant to work on Episode 9. It was a last minute decision because they panicked when EP8 released and had to figure out who the main villain was going to be after Ryan murdered him.
It's still not a good movie by any means, the B-plot made sure of that, but I do appreciate him making some effort to bring Luke out of the slump JJ put him in offscreen. TLJ's biggest crime is confirming things that should've been clear from day one. There was never any chance that it would be good given the abysmal state TFA left us in. And it's not like later depictions of Luke out of the streaming slop have made things better. At best it's flanderization and at worst it actually damages him further.
Lucas was mostly hands off at the start of Empire because he was handling the special FX with ILM, until Gary Kurtz almost tanked the entire production by being incompent, at which point he came back and effectively shadow directed, which is what he also did on ROTJ. Lawrence Kasdan helped write the screenplays, but the story was entirely Lucas, and considering some of Kasdan's other screenwriting credits, I'm not willing to giving him a lot of praise. ROTJ was also finished by the time Lucas got divorced, in fact part of the reason for his divorce was because he was so focused on the Star Wars films that he didn't notice his ex-wife sneaking around with a guy Lucas had hired to work on some stained glass at Skywalker Ranch.
People keep trying to push this idea that Star Wars ended up being great in spite of Lucas rather than because of him, but it's just not true. Lucas is almost solely the reason and DEFINITELY the sole CREATIVE reason Star Wars as a franchise became the worldwide phenomenon that it did. To claim otherwise shows that you know very little about the actual production of the Star Wars films.
defend this shitshow
Everything about RoS is a total pivot away from TLJ, it exists because they panicked at the reaction. You are never going to get a movie studio "apologizing" for a movie but that's the closest you're going to get.
How do you explain the massive dip in quality between the OT and PT? Or the weird stuff that he added in for the Special Editions? And don't you dare say that there isn't.
Even your childhood hero is as fallible and prone to doubt as you, but realises that failure is a teacher, leading him to embrace those mistakes as a part of living, and be a selfless, compassionate example to other in need anyway
More like the guy who was willing to let himself die than strike down Vader because he believed so wholeheartedly in the good within his father is also the same guy who would contemplate murdering his own nephew who was a teenager because he sensed that MAYBE he might do something evil, and then instead of trying to fix that mistake abandoned everyone to be a nasty, bitter asshole who refuses to help until the walking plot device that is Rey convinces him otherwise.
Trying to imply Rian Johnson was trying to create any kind of nuance or deep meaning with Luke is total bullshit. When you have Hamill, literally Luke Skywalker himself saying "this is not how the character would behave" and your response is to telling to shut up and read the lines because you think it's a sign of creativity to purposely piss off half your audience, then you are NOT the person that should be handling Star Wars.
Makes a trilogy ending for a middle chapter movie.
Having a flash of rage because he knows something he loves in in danger and then getting himself under control is completely within Luke's established character. He very nearly kills Vader at the end of RotJ when he threatens to corrupt Leia, only seeing his dad's robot hand snapped him out of it.
RLM type people hate George SO MUCH that they make sure nothing good is ever credited to him.
It's like other bitter boomers and Gen Xers with Star Trek, blaming Roddenberry for everything bad.
Yep. Cinema offcially died with David Lynch.
Apparently Kylo was already an asshole which is why he was sent to train with Luke. Both Han and Leia thought there was "too much Vader in him" or some shit. So he's probably at least halfway to lost cause before Luke ever pulled a bad uncle on him.
Still doesn't excuse why Luke's training didn't work though, I got nothing on that front.
If we'd known what they'd decided to go with afterwards we would've called it there too.
teevee STILL isn't ready to hear this but TLJ was not that bad in hindsight compared to ROS. It at least was trying new things and felt like a real movie with a real vision if that vision was kind of dumb and misguided. the third film in the trilogy still had potential to be okay but instead it was (relative to it's cost) the worst film ever created
Maybe try doing Empire again?
I agree it is still better than RoS but that's really not a high bar to clear. Even DC capeshit flicks are better put together than that mess of a movie. Also
trying new things
In concept? Sure.
In execution? Lmao.
its ok Rian, at least your faggot detective fantasy is still being hyped up by Netflix
teevee STILL isn't ready to hear this but TLJ was not that bad in hindsight compared to ROS. It at least was trying new things and felt like a real movie with a real vision if that vision was kind of dumb and misguided. the third film in the trilogy still had potential to be okay but instead it was (relative to it's cost) the worst film ever created
Wrong. RoS is at least fun to an extent TLJ is boring and shit with half the movie wasted on a b story that goes nowhere at all.
RoS can be seen through the lens of the fact that rian left them nothing at all to work with and has a small amount of forgiveness for it.
TLJ has no such merit of any kind and is completely terrible.
I don't think anyone could've directed a proper third movie after Ryan pivoted hard with the second movie. The ultimate issue with the sequels is that no basic outline existed and directors were encouraged to do their own thing based on the prior movie. If anyone is to blame, its Disney for trying to force the Marvel formula of "do your own thing" onto Star Wars and not inherently JJ Abrams or Ryan Johnson.
actually eating literal donkey shit wasn't that bad in hindsight compared to the aids-ridden rotting carcass I chose to eat afterwards. At least the donkey shit didn't leave me with a fatal degenerative disease. And the thing is that it tasted so bad that it would've been so easy to serve an enjoyable follow-up dish
Wow. Really makes you think
yeah the end of s2 where baby yoda leaves with skinwalker luke, only for s3 ep1 baby yoda to be walking around like nothing had happened at all because of an entirely different show
TLJ is genuinely a good movie aside from a few bits (the casino shit and basically Finn/Rose's entire story is dogshit, and the idea of the space chase that people can somehow come and go from is nonsense). I actually enjoy what Rian did with Luke, and Rey and Kylo's arc in this movie is great.
The biggest problems with the ST were that they didn't just plan out the plot in advance obviously, that was incredibly reckless and stupid, and that they panicked too much to the backlash to TLJ and hard pivoted into memberberries gigaslop with RoS.
He nearly kills Vader because Vader has tried to kill him before, threatens to mess with Leia, and has a giant laser pointed at all his friends. In the last jedi, he just had a bad dream...
a good movie aside from a few bits (the casino shit and basically Finn/Rose's entire story is dogshit
That's 90% of the movie so doing the math it is a shit movie by your standards.
That's 90% of the movie
It's about 30%
TLJ is genuinely a good movie
Shit b8
In the last jedi, he just had a bad dream
He had a premonition, correctly, that Ben was under the influence of the dark side and would destroy everything Luke had built.
And don't you dare say that there isn't.
In terms of actual creativity, there is no dip in quality. I will say that Lucas made some creative choices that were a fairly big curveball to throw at audiences, like choosing to make AOTC half noir detective story and half romantic melodrama, but that doesn't make them BAD creative choices. Jar Jar is a crazy, wacky, character and easily the most comedic of any of the films, but he's also the exact kind of comedy that very small children respond to and help keep them invested during some of the slower parts. The CGI is fairly dated looking now, but it was absolutely cutting edge back then, I just wish Lucas had been able to use it on projects more than The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles and the special editions to test a lot of the tech out. The Prequels are exactly what they needed to be, they just weren't what a lot of very vocal older fans WANTED them to be. I know people have their issues with them, and for a long time I was very much part of the crowd that considered them bad, but something about them made me keep coming back, and over the years the more I've watched them, and the more I've learned about Star Wars as a production, not the lore or the expanded universe, the actual making of all the films and Lucas' thought process, the more the films make sense. I genuinely love The Prequels, flaws and all. I'm not saying you have to love them as well, but if nothing else give them one more watch at least, go into them with an open mind and see how you feel. You might find you enjoy them more when you let go of feeling like you have to justify enjoying them.
As for the Special Editions, there are changes and additions I personally am not a fan of, for example I think adding Jabba back in wasn't necessary because repeats a lot of the dialogue beats from the Greedo scene, I also don't really dig Greedo shooting first, or the Ronto walking in front of the camera during the "these aren't the droids you're looking for" scene. That being said there are a lot of GOOD changes and additions, for example the new Sandcrawler shot, the more detailed matte painting of Mos Eisley, the Outrider, the fixed matte lines on all the compositing throughout the whole trilogy (watch 4K83, the Matting is horrible, especially when they're rescuing Luke from under Cloud City), the additional shots and the windows on Cloud City making it feel like an actual city. The Special editions do so much right for the films, but people have screamed so loudly and so long about the things they don't like it over-shadows the good things, even minor stuff like picrel, which is a screenshot from 4K80 and the special edition of Empire which I just took myself. Artoo needed to be black and white in the original because of the compositing process, it's a minor thing, but having it in colour IS an improvement.
and the only way to prevent that was murder? standing over him with his lightsaber would not trigger the premonotion becoming real?
TLJ was written by morons for morons
standing over him with his lightsaber would not trigger the premonotion becoming real?
it's literally a pottery moment for Anakin inadvertently causing the tragedy he foresaw in RotS by working to prevent it and falling to the dark side.
It would've been a lot easier if they'd stuck more closely to trevorrow's script. That script draft had allegedly existed since before TLJ was fully out the door, so even with all the shit like Carrie Fisher dying there was still plenty they could use and change by the time TLJ was out and we all could see how bad things really were.
It's still got a lot of problems but overall there's better material there than anything Disney Lucasfilm would make before or since then.
Is Disney still trying to use the OT comics/Vader comics to try and make the sequel trilogy make sense, or did they finally give up and just go straight to Mando-era tie ins?
Honestly the whole thing would have been such a massive improvement if Rian had just made it that he never saw the darkness in Ben until he massacred the entire new Jedi academy. Then Luke left because he felt like he had failed and that if he couldn't see that darkness coming from his own nephew, how could he help anyone else? It still would have been shit and JJ setting up Luke fucking off for 20 years in the first place was still a terrible choice, but here we are and you can't unfuck a roast dinner.
How do you explain the massive dip in quality between the OT and PT?
And don't you dare say that there isn't.
There isn't. Now what?
I'm pretty sure they gave up outside of one episode of the bad batch from a year or so ago.
nta but the world disagrees with you, fortunately
Shame. I was enjoying their frantic attempts and struggle.
What about their High Republic stuff? Did it get soft shelved after Acolyte flopped?
And yet JJ still had Luke wearing Jedi robes, and Rian has him immediately change out of them into his hobo costume.
The world is a lot bigger than what a small handful of nerds says a few years after the fact.
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It's about 30%
no it's 90% because everything with holdo and poe, the slow chase through space is all connected to that dumb bullshit, it's all the same poisonous tree.
8 better than 7 better than shit better than 9
8 is better than 2 btw
8 is better than 2 btw
Not when 2 has this track.
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as a 23 year old
Not him, but I assume that you posted this image because you are in that age group, which explains why you're incapable of seeing the dip in quality as you were were only 3 years old when the prequel trilogy ended.
teevee STILL isn't ready to hear this but TLJ was not that bad in hindsight compared to ROS.
Possibly, but that might be because, like myself, most of Anon Babble never bothered with ROS after the disaster that was TLJ. Hell I didn't even bother with Solo until I watched it at a friend's place.
few years after
It was practically sudden. Didn't take a decade after when the Mr. Plinkett reviews popped up for people to show their dismay for PM kid.
And for the links you shown, in about 10-15 years from now, people will depict people reacting with glee over the sequel trailers or the lines forming for them as "evidence" of how the sequels were actually liked. You're going to contest this foresight no doubt, but that's what exactly is going to happen.
I actually enjoy what Rian did with Luke
I try not to judge people and let them just enjoy what they enjoy, but why, anon?
Luke willingly gave himself up to Vader knowing all of the atrocities he had committed and would commit if he failed; it was only when Vader got too personal that he actually flipped out and had enough
Star wars never recovered from the special editions. It's as much of a corpse as the simpsons
if you think your anecdotal evidence is more or even just equally conclusive as IMDB or rotten tomatoes scores, you're laughably wrong. the highest rated PT episode is not anywhere near the lowest rated OT episode. it's nowhere near margin of error
I just saved the image, I didn't make it. I WISH I was still 23, but unfortunately I am much older (I'm now at the age where I need to manage the hair that grows out of my ears). Originally I had just the R2 picture I used, but when I ended up needing to split the image I grabbed something different to add in. That being said, here is an edit that I just made to make the image a little more universal.
comes into legendary franchise
ruins it beyond repair
movie makes a billion dollars
leaves
uses movie to work in passion projects he actually cares about
they're all hits
keeps working on what he wants as the franchise is in shambles
he won
OOOoooh. Lookit this 200 IQ big brain big balled fella we got over here
He doesn't finish eating the shit sandwich after the first bite. He doesn't even take one small bite just to be sure that the brown lumps in his sandwich might be shit.
You make me sick anon. You are no Star Wars fan of mine.
Star wars was killed in the 90s with the re-edited original trilogy
imdb or rotten tomatoes
lol
lmao even
Ah yes thankfully he didn't change after that scene and stayed exactly the same for 30 years
Star Wars never recovered from TFA trailer #1
FTFY
his day will come. I hope there's a massive chud revolution in hollywood and he gets beheaded in front of the masses