I worked on Joker: Folie à Deux

Todd was a fall guy, of sorts, to account for Joaquin's whims. He was completely, head to toe, enveloped in the character of Arthur Fleck and would micromanage every story beat and line of dialogue. It wouldn't be a stretch to say the movie was pretty much written and directed by him, in principle. He wanted to have total control over the character that he won an Oscar for playing. The first draft was completely different. The whole Broadway/musical schtick was Joaquin's delusions of grandeur at work. Guess starving yourself for months on end for art's sake makes you a little bit kooky. Harleen Quinzel was actually supposed to be called something else entirely and adopt the 'Harlequin' moniker, much the same way Arthur Fleck 'adopted' the Joker persona but the only thing the studio veto-ed was having her be called Harleen Quinzel because the character had big brand recognition and they wanted to highlight that. Also, Gaga wanted to play Harley Quinn straight up. First draft wasn't full of liberties and contrivances. Pretty close to what you'd expect. The second draft is when Joaquin gets his mitts all over and starts tearing stuff up on a whim and forcing his "vision". He was somehow revelling in all of the misery the Fleck character was experiencing and kept suggesting escalating ways to up the dark tone of the movie. Somewhere down the road, he even suggested to have Harley tell Arthur to his face after betraying him that he aborted his child that she was going to have as "payback" for being a disappointment. Wacky stuff like that. The "rape", or what looked like one, was his input too. Todd was just a nodding enabler. Then, funny thing is, when he started eating again and dropped the role, he realized what a fucking mess he had made of the movie and that clarity-of-mind led to him rejecting that X-rated gay drama with Todd Haynes.

he realized what a fucking mess he had made of the movie and that clarity-of-mind led to him rejecting that X-rated gay drama with Todd Haynes

goons so hard he allows himself to be raped on film

postnut clarity makes him regret it

KINO

Amazing if true. When

I'm the jokah baby

Goes too far

dunno if you're legit or not but this definitely sounds about right and how I imagined it. Joaquin seems to have a tendency to go too far up his own ass, and the dude has a ton of trauma that could definitely come out in that way. hopefully you're right about him realizing it was a mistake.

come on i want you to do it I want you to do it

COME ON

RAPE ME

COME ON RAPE ME

If you are not a shit for bitch, can you tell how originally the movie was supposed to end? Would it have been received better if not for change?

is it true that at one point they wanted to includ joker doing a roman salute and hail hitlering all over the place?

Are there any unfilmed scenes that you think would've massively improved the movie?

If you are legit, post a never before seen behind-the-scenes photo or a fact only someone from the production team would know.

It actually is true
From day one, we were told nothing about the plot. NDAs like you wouldn’t believe. No full scripts. Pages were handed out daily, sometimes handwritten on napkins, receipts, once even on a playing card with smudged lipstick. I’m not making that up.

Phillips wouldn’t talk above a whisper on set. That’s not a quirk, that was policy. He said sound “breaks the tension we’re building.” Joaquin? He wasn’t acting. He’d sit in corners alone between takes, giggling to himself, running lines from scenes we hadn’t shot yet. One day he was barefoot, dragging a violin bow along the hallway walls and muttering “this one’s in a different key.”

Gaga didn’t respond to her real name. Ever. Someone called her Stefani early in the shoot and she stared at them for a full minute until they left the set. She lived as Harley for six months. And I don’t mean method acting. I mean full dissociation. There was a mirror she insisted be on set at all times, but only she could look into it. She’d sing into it between takes, like a duet with someone who wasn’t there. I still have nightmares about that.

Midway through the shoot, the tone changed. Not the movie’s tone—the energy on set. One of the PAs walked off after saying he saw Phillips and Gaga talking to someone in a clown mask who no one else had seen arrive. They weren’t rehearsing. It wasn’t for a scene. Security never found the guy. After that, things got cold. Not metaphorically. Physically cold. Inside soundstages with climate control. People started dressing heavier, lighting grip hands wore gloves. Lights would flicker, but only when Phoenix laughed in character. i swear to god, there was a day we all heard music—just faint piano notes—and no one could find the source. Even post crew couldn’t explain it. It’s in one of the raw takes. I hope someone leaks it.

A lot of people giving credit to Todd for making some kind of macabre point about "incels", studios and whatever the hell couldn't be more off the mark. Hell, even Quentin Tarantino drank the Kool-AId on that one. The whole thing was a car-wreck everyone but Gaga knew was happening. Being ultimately quite inexperienced with movie making, even after some time and a few roles, she was going along with everything, thinking this'll do for her what it did to for Joaquin back in 2019. She also released an album at the same time to really heighten how "big" of a deal it would be for her. Not much love lost between her and Joaquin, let me tell you. They just didn't mish-mash as well as they hoped. Bruce Wayne was indeed featured in early drafts but dropped because, more than ever, Joaquin wanted nothing to do with DC or any of that stuff. The preliminary plan was to have a trilogy, like Nolan, with the third film being a "menage a trois" with Joker, Harley and some kind of twisted version of Batman. But obviously, things went sideways and he said he never planned for a trilogy. Just like he never planned for a second movie. All bullshit. Todd isn't too harmed from this, because most people in the know see it as Joaquin's fuck-up, and he's too ironclad at this point to suffer either. Gaga won't suffer. Everyone got away from it pretty clean except these new young actors who were hoping it would elevate their status. Maybe those guys get hurt but probably not. Also, because this is all done on the top of my head with what I've heard, the movie's costs are some typical Hollywood accounting fuckery. No, the movie didn't cost 200 million to make. Costs balloon and very few people know how the numbers got up there.

What was Jaquan’s goal here? Was he living vicariously through Arthur to get masochistic pleasure?

Joaquin Phoenix said he hopes Tim Dillon gets cancer for real between takes and refused to talk to him for most of his scenes

Sounds like struggling with his sexuality or sth adjacent is his fuel for ideas, that it's gay as risqué when he's in extreme duress

A failed schizo kino due to behind the scenes schizo kino

poetry

Did Todd do the general directorial duties like giving pointers to the technical crews? Was there an AD shouting stuff and getting people together? Or were things happening purely on Joaquin's whims? How does the studio feel about the movie?

. How many PAs had to guard the catering table from Tim Dillon between takes?

Kek. What did Tim do to piss him off?

Some cool written scenes before, as has been reported and I have seen, Joaquin tore them up. Basically, Arthur was far more like the Joker in his personality than anything in the finished film. He'd have a riot with the media trying to pick his brains and the guards had a far, far lesser role. Harley was actually written in her original psychiatrist role, something Todd had no problems with but Joaquin didn't like, and so they made her into a fellow crazy patient because Joaquin thought it'd work better. Not anything in particular but the whole tone and the way the Fleck character was written. I suspect Joaquin viewed this, less as a DC comic book movie, and more an elongated therapy session given how much he was hands-on. Some real deep-seated stuff. The musical aspect was put in by Joaquin who wanted to sing in the movie but otherwise, it was always planned as a straight-forward sequel.
Too many endings too count, given they tore and stitched the script so many times. One of the more outlandish ones was to have Harley visit Arthur in the end, in some hole they threw him in, similar to one scene in the film, lead him on and then brutally kill him and holding his severed head in her lap while she sang, imagining her and him as Joker in a fantasy. That was the last scene in a draft. Like I said, Joaquin wanted to make THE misery-porn movie.

Indeed. Though he'd never admit to it and think nobody could guess to the machinations of mind or something like that but it's very clear. He also took the weight loss very seriously because otherwise, he seems like a huge foodie and that messed with his head. He had more trouble with cravings than he did anything else, lol. It's easy to see these Hollywood people as above petty things like this but they're not. He didn't really want to make a movie here, he just wanted to inhabit the character 24/7 as a means of escapism or whatever it was, in his head.
He knew better than to piss on the guy who made his 50 million dollar Scorsese copycat film into a billion dollar movie that won Oscars and plus, he didn't have the juice to override Joaquin even if he wanted to. A lot has been said on how Todd was the one who hated the DC assocations but it was actually Joaquin. A lot of the Batman mythos included in the first film was allowed begrudgingly by Joaquin. He just found the assocation with the comic book company embarassing or something to that effect. Joker, as was written in Todd's original script for the first movie, was a lot closer to the Joker in comics. There was even a scene where he calls Sophie a whore in front of her kid because she found him sleeping with another man at night. But Joaquin thought Arthur, as he had imagined him, wouldn't do that so that whole storyline was cut.

Too many endings too count, given they tore and stitched the script so many times. One of the more outlandish ones was to have Harley visit Arthur in the end, in some hole they threw him in, similar to one scene in the film, lead him on and then brutally kill him and holding his severed head in her lap while she sang, imagining her and him as Joker in a fantasy. That was the last scene in a draft. Like I said, Joaquin wanted to make THE misery-porn movie.

Which one would've been objectively the best and let the movie be a success? In your opinion at least

You know the scene in the movie where they escape Arkham Asylum or try to? There was an ending to that effect. They spent the whole movie in the asylum getting to know each other and relishing in fantasy and only at the end, after some planning, stage the escape. It was like Clockwork Orange/Cuckoo's Nest/Silence for the Lambs/Mad Love set in Arkham Asylum and in the end they decide to escape while singing and dancing. Perfectly in line with what was established prior and leaving the door open for a third film which, more than likely, would've featured Bruce Wayne/Batman or some other villain to cap off the trio to continue the motif. Including Batman wholesale would've been a hard sell to WB but if the second film stuck the landing and made as much if not more than the first, they would've considered it.

Have you worked on any other films?

Yes. Mostly for Warner Bros. Oh, and tidbit about Superman, most people in the know at WB are prepared for it to bomb due to horrendous test screening reactions but content that Minecraft doing huge numbers provides a safety net once that goes down. Zazlav feels that the DC brand has become a lost cause and will licence out characters to other studios. They'll phase Gunn out quietly. Also, Matt Reeves is not sick with leukemia as has been suggested but has a family member on the fade and doesn't want to spend time making a Batman movie instead. The script he finished 2 years ago. Lanterns will be reworked with minimal DCU connections once Superman flops and Supergirl might become a Max original.

This is kino behind-the-scenes info, anon. I'm still mad about what they did to that movie, so this makes me feel just a bit better. I liked the first one so much I referenced it several times in my upcoming novel. But the second was so fucking disastrous I couldn't bring myself to watch it. What was the worst day of filming you guys had? Worst vibes/fuck-ups, etc.

Do you know anything about the production of any of The Matrix films, particularly the current fate of the franchise and if Lana Wachowski made Resurrections simply as a fuck-you to the producers?

Joaquin basically grew up in a sex cult so he definitely has some psycho-sexual issues and is clearly drawn to roles like that, see Beau is Afraid for example.

I wish I could have seen Tim Dillon bullying Jaoquin

It was a chaotic set. Phillips tiptoeing around Joaquin's whims, Gaga trying to keep up but being left to the side, Gleeson and the other supporting actors barely able to muster the strength to not look like they'd rather be anywhere else. You had some suits with solemn expressions of resignation show up. A feeling of everyone wanting to get it over with. Joaquin was more dead set on beating cravings than putting in the effort. Him trying to sing despite being emancipated, which strains on your voice heavily, was also another thing.

I worked in Napoleon and Joaquin was constantly eating fried onions with bread.

joaquin the retarded NIGGER that you are

Gleeson and the other supporting actors barely able to muster the strength to not look like they'd rather be anywhere else.

Has Brendan Gleeson ever even talked about the film after its release? I feel he'd have some choice words to say about this mess.

Fuck-you to the producers

This is a nice thought experiment for fandoms to ruminate on but never is the case, lol. Far as I know on that front, it was an honest-to-god cash grab and the Sisters wanted in on the money. No fourth-wall mockery on the producers' dime. Same with Joker: Folie a Deux. I think people like to build these narratives to give "crappy" movies some street cred, as it were, or whatever else reason there is that makes these narratives circulate. They had the Matrix IP, thought to squeeze it for more profit, got the original creators as a good will gesture and to add "legitimacy" to it as a continuation, and that's about it. Producers are dumb but they're not stupid. They would never let someone fuck around on their dime the way people like to think. Never ever. Wish it were true, though. It's a really boring reality, what can I tell you..

I know you're bullshitting, but Joker 2 is a great film. I'll die on this hill.

fake LARP thread

hat clarity-of-mind led to him rejecting that X-rated gay drama with Todd Haynes.

Kind of tracks with the fact that apparently a lot of the extreme material in the Haynes film was Joaquin's idea to begin with, and that he was pushing for it to be more graphic and sexual.
I believe you anon.

There's nothing worse than being emancipated saar.
Unless it's making phony insider threads.

Oh, and Joaquin and Phillips haven't talked after the compulsory press tour.

be that as it may, it's fun to pretend

Meant emaciated but it came out like that due to Edge's pesky and intrusive word correction. By the way, what browsers do the cool kids on the internet use?

How many takes did Joaquin have to do with his singing, on average? 'Cause he can't sing for shit, and he was dry as a bone, by the looks of it, weight-wise.

What makes you say that

chrome

He can't sing but he likes to think he can. The man is nothing if not hubris personified.

Guess starving yourself for months on end for art's sake makes you a little bit kooky.

Why did he starve? For the role of Joker? Or for something else? These fucking method actors.

But wasn't the whole point that the characters themselves were deliberately meant to be terrible singers? Even Gaga was singing badly in the film

Nope. Must be some kind of manufactured PR thing. Joaquin really does think he can sing and did a bunch of extra songs for the film. The end credits one was but one of those songs. Gaga couldn't sing badly even if she tried.
Roundabout way to get motivation to lose weight but he inevitably gains it back once the movie is done.

LIGHTS. CAMERA. INSANITY.
this is just fanfic

I remember reading around the time of Resurrections that it was mainly James McTeigue who actually directed the film, and Lana just kind of hang around co-directing.

I noticed that they cut a few of Gaga's scenes that were heavily advertised in trailers as well stuff like picrel, what was the reason behind? If you know.

hey i'm an insider into the actor's brain after the movie was done

lol stfu

Conjecure, sure, but easily proven by common sense and that video of him calling the movie terrible at Gaga when they were at Venice.
Gaga was fucked over. Simple as.

Anon Babble got filtered so hard by this movie that it has to create a larp justifying their hate for it

Is WB prepared to stop Gunn from calling anyone not a lunatic leftie a Nazi, especially if the film underperforms? Or are they resigned to Gunn pretty much inevitably poisoning the well and pissing off a good chunk of the audience for the film because of his hate boner for Trump and the fact that he's still butt hurt that conservatives briefly cancelled him and turned Disney against him even after they brought him back for GOTG3?

Minecraft has helped ease the inevitable pain from Superman bombing. They will either loan out IPs to other studios OR sell off wholesale to Apple.

Oh, and tidbit about Superman, most people in the know at WB are prepared for it to bomb due to horrendous test screening reactions

In your opinion as someone who is (allegedly) connected to WB, what is the feeling around the whole Zack Snyder situation? Does him screwing the pooch with Rebel Moon make WB feel better about ditching him? Are they worried about the Donner dick sucking of the new version backfiring? Is this going to be a Superman Returns situation where it's just a boring film nobody likes, or is there something worse brewing here where it turns into an absolute shitfire? What happens to Gunn? (I like Gunn, but I'm skeptical about his Superman.)

Do you think the Ayer Cut of Suicide Squad is ever on the table, especially if Superman is terrible and they desperately need a PR win? (It probably sucks, but you never know.) Same with the Batman Forever director's cut that has been screened privately.

I love these leaks that go into several different creative decisions and the reasoning behind them that some dude on set wouldn't even be privy too, and they go into private conversations between people and even into their own personal feelings as if the author is omnipotent, and the Anon Babble will listen to it without the author providing one reason suggesting credibility. Despite this, it's completely accepted and will likely be repeated for several years in threads

One of the PAs walked off after saying he saw Phillips and Gaga talking to someone in a clown mask who no one else had seen arrive.

Security never found the guy.

This is Creepypasta-tier bullshit. You should be embarrassed at how shitty and obviously made up this sounds.

Why do people make stuff up like this? For ephemeral attention?

Zack Snyder

Most people have moved on. Nobody thinks much of him or what he had going with the studio. Forgive and forget. More so forget than forgive but you know, lol.

Superman (2025)

It's just an inconsequential Gunn circlejerk and fluff fest. Worst possible start to a "new universe". It has all the problems of late-stage MCU movies while being proposed as a fresh start. It's a disaster.

What happens to Gunn?

He sinks DC to depths undreamt of and fucks off back to Disney/Marvel. Having lost nothing.

Ayer Cut

Never happening. There isn't that much of a fundamental difference as with Snyder to warrant it. No one cares about it beyond Ayer. Gunn met with him and fed him bullshit in hopes to curb his incessant public cries but to no avail.

How much of the blowback from this film inspired Gaga's Mayhem album?

To be honest, a lot of this stuff is already known from set gossip.

Nothing in these posts is going into private conversations. Merely expanding upon what is already somewhat known with details.

Got any info on the plans for Batman Beyond?

Nothing that I know of. Although, an A-list director pitched a Watchmen project to Gunn recently.

Most people have moved on. Nobody thinks much of him or what he had going with the studio.

How does WB manage that when his version of Superman is the one that emerges victorious if Gunn's film bombs? I guess they won't care anymore because they'll stop making DC movies, but still. It'll be very embarrassing.

It sounds like that director wants "Doomsday Clock" to be Gunn's hail Mary

I am once again giving you a chance to defend your position. If you don’t reply then we can all assume you are a contrarian fishing for yous

No, it has nothing to do with the DCU. It's a Watchmen-adjacent project. Rorschach standalone, most likely.

That sounds like it would bomb worse than the HBO mini-series.

Depends. The director is coming off quite the hit, albeit on streaming, and has some name cred. He wants to do Joker 2.0 but picked the worst time to pitch it considering the sequel bombed and has poisoned the well for Elseworlds projects. But then again that Clayface movie is an Elseworlds project in all but name. Gunn is bullcrapping that it's DCU-set. It has nothing to do with the DCU.

Give it up, jeet. People have called out your larp.

Why weren’t there more rape scenes?

with the third film being a "menage a trois" with Joker, Harley and some kind of twisted version of Batman.

Damn… that could have been kino

Gaga was fucked over

I mean, I assumed that was the case.
Definitely a contraian. It had its moments but it was a slog to get through.

other elseworld projects

Maybe Joker 2 bombing was a good thing but then again there was also that Penguin show and that did pretty well, yeah?

i can easily tell chatgpt wrote this btw. thats not a knock necessarily, chatgpt is amazing, but if anyone thinks this is real, its not

It's also obviously a different person to the guy posting most of the "leaks".

The director is coming off quite the hit, albeit on streaming, and has some name cred.

Jaume Collett-Serra?

Todd was a fall guy, of sorts, to account for Joaquin's whims. He was completely, head to toe, enveloped in the character of Arthur Fleck and would micromanage every story beat and line of dialogue. It wouldn't be a stretch to say the movie was pretty much written and directed by him, in principle. He wanted to have total control over the character that he won an Oscar for playing.

What a moron. He's not a writer, he's an actor. He's the shit that comes out of the asshole, not the digestgive system that produced it. He forgot which hole he's supposed to come out of.

this movie was fucking awesome i like it more every rewatch

Probably based on that awful Tom King project.

Can you answer how this comic guy, Tom King, is seen inside WB? He seems to be treated as the new Kevin Smith/Geoff Johns.

Then, funny thing is, when he started eating again and dropped the role, he realized what a fucking mess he had made of the movie and that clarity-of-mind led to him rejecting that X-rated gay drama with Todd Haynes.

What the fuck...

King has CIA connections. He's an industry plant that produces agitprop for the left.

it checks out because apparently he was getting really possessive of the script in that movie too, pushing for it to be more explicitly sexual and extreme, and then all of a sudden he drops out right before it goes into production.

That sounds great and actually fun and fitting
How sad it wasn't used