Does literally nothing wrong

killed by own son

Shit father then

should have made a move on cersei while she had long hair

This. Can we stop having this thread now?

so he alienated his own son enough to want to kill him? sounds like he did do something wrong. and if tyrion is inherently evil, he failed to kill him which itself is a massive failure.

Is this underworld or gamerthrones I can't tell

oh great another

incels simp for flawed head of house in fictional universe only because he's white

episode

bad father

The worst failing a father can have.

He literally won every war he fought

Except he ignored Dany and her dragons
Even Joffrey wanted to do something about Dany but he said no

Bookreader here. Tywin can be best compared to a figure like Oliver Cromwell. Sure, he's effective and no one will dare stand against him, even as he has made mistakes, but come his death, no one will be allied with his descendants and he failed to build a lasting structure.

Tywin can be best compared to a figure like Oliver Cromwell.

True. Tywin was a traitor to his lawful king.

His children were all retarded. He deserves some blame for that

waited until the end of Robert’s Rebellion to do anything

murdering Elia and usurping the Targaryens directly led to his own death and the downfall of his family

gets btfo by Robb so hard he needed to break guestright in order to achieve the slightest of victories

his family is so destitute by the end of the war he needs to be bailed out by the Tyrells who immediately usurp the kingdom

No, he banged a hooked that his son was in love with.
Hence cuck rage.

The cuckold gangrape was a bit weird too.

>waited until the end of Robert’s Rebellion to do anything

So?

murdering Elia and usurping the Targaryens directly led to his own death and the downfall of his family

What? Firstly, there are about two decades of history between those two events, so not “directly”. Secondly, the Lannisters were in a pretty good spot before Tywin’s death, he didn't begin the downfall.

>gets btfo by Robb so hard he needed to break guestright in order to achieve the slightest of victories

“slightest of victories” it was total, complete victory

>his family is so destitute by the end of the war he needs to be bailed out by the Tyrells who immediately usurp the kingdom

Tyrells only really seized power after Kevan died. If Tywin was alive the Lannisters would be on a far better footing.

What battles did Tywin win again?

This is kind of silly anon.
For one he didn’t start the war nor was he there to prevent the kings stupidity. Due to factors entirely out of his control he was stuck fighting a losing war on two fronts.
He wasn’t really outplayed by rob either. Rob ended up being a prodigy at battle commanding however he was able to outmaneuver and isolate rob despite this. Tywin secured alliances with the reach and managed to counter stannis’ invasion while also using Robs disloyal vassals against him. All while losing almost every battle.
Then with the red wedding, yes it’s a bad look but he was able to completely neutralize the north and place a friendly house in charge and captured the head of house Tully. Like yes it’s a bad look but it ended the war as quick as it could’ve been ended.
As for his death and the houses waning power, that’s entirely at the hands of Cersei honestly. She was the one to accuse Tyrion in the first place and the one to run the kingdom into the ground after tywins death.
Like he’s not perfect but he still won a war that he should’ve lost

entirely out of his control

I reject this. His bad parenting is the root of his problems. A good man cannot be a bad father.

He beat up on some lesser houses for which they wrote the Rains of Castamere. That song is shit by the way

The Tyrells were more than willing to play ball but Cersei fucked it up by default and by raising Joffrey to be a memelord.

these major houses laughed at us?

burn 1 to the ground and drown the other

yes the women and children too

Tywin had no chill

Well that’s kind of the point of his character no? He’s not a good man, he’s a genuinely terrible man. He’s just a great leader and administrator, hence why he’s able to achieve so much yet those closest to him (besides Kevan bless his soul) hate his guts

he lost

Making Cersei queen was more disastrous than all of his interactions towards Tyrion

Stannis is the way better old autist to get behind in GoT

He’s just a great leader and administrator

But not really though. His kids were fucking each and impregnating each other for 30 years and he had no idea. That's bad leadership and bad administrating.

Well I mean as a political move it makes perfect sense to make your house become the royal house. However I don’t think he predicted her becoming a crueler fem-robert. Side note but the Cersei chapters are some of the best literature I’ve ever read

twice a rebel (never crowned)

kinslayer

apostate

cavorts with smugglers, pirates, moneylenders, skin wearing savages, sellswords, witches, and Maesters

literally raised by Maesters

hypocrite (rebellion is ok when I do it!)

practices blood magic

no major holdings (Storms End lost to the true king Faegon)

only victories against Ironniggers and some women and children north of the wall

ugly wife (possibly cucking him with Patchface)

no sons

Cersei and Brienne chapters are the best ones.
I'd put Jamie and Shansha in second.

I think you’re confusing emotional intelligence with administrative skills. You can absolutely be a hyper autist who can run a kingdom well while also being totally unaware of the going ons of his family. To him they were just chess pieces to position in strategic positions and reward/punish depending on their behavior. Not to mention that he wasn’t in kings landing for a significant amount of time and even when him and all his kids were living at the Rock he was known to be constantly away and inattentive. Considering the time period I don’t think he could’ve just checked their phone locations to see where they were at night lmao

your rebellion comments are absurd when he was the rightful king and it was his duty to take the throne back, you also missed the part where he fought alongside his men and heroically made the tyrannical Lannisters fear and almost suicide before daddy Tywin arrives, and thats even after they had some bullshit magic fire to destroy his whole fleet. Hes the closed analog to Napolean

and still the rightful king

He did not start the War of the Five Kings. What exactly are you faulting him for not preparing?

How can he be this genius man that did nothing wrong when he was put into a TERRIBLE position despite all the influence he had. Not starting the war is simply not an excuse. He could have fostered alliances with the Reach or the Riverlands for instance, ingrained House Lannister into those houses to ensure a strong standing and not being utterly reliant on good relations with Robert. He could have leveraged his power and debt that he had on Robert to gain a position on the King's council and played a far more active hand in the affairs of the crown... instead he was so unlikeable that he didn't even get any position in the kings council.

His house is only totally reviled in the North, who cannot do anything. To say the Lannisters aren’t prestigious is completely risible.

If you read the books, the High Sparrows and many of the peaseants absolutely DESPISe the Lannisters for the sack of Kings landing and the Red wedding, and word gets around, many houses in the Riverlands, the North, many in the Vale would have a negative view of the Lannisters since their involvement is clear as day. Ruling over people that hate you is not a long-term effective strategy.

This “legacy” thing is a total cope. The Red Wedding was a ridiculously successful political operation.

It was absolutely devastating for House Lannister. Soft-power, prestige, reputation and all that shit is extremely important for a politician and leader. Throwing away your moral legitimacy to gain an edge when trying to establish a long-term dynasty is a very ill move

your rebellion comments are absurd when he was the rightful king and it was his duty to take the throne back

When he fought in Robert's Rebellion that was treason. And he had no real evidence Joffrey was a bastard. He may have been right but he no real reason to believe it.

Side note but the Cersei chapters are some of the best literature I’ve ever read

My sides were in orbit every other page reading them.
t. the mouse in Cersei's closet who keeps sewing her gowns tighter

its a Cersei accidentally gives away the royal fleet episode

The Kettleblack saga

He beat Roose and Stannis but got his shit pushed in by Radmure

MYRISH
SWAMP

He didn't poop so good

He didn't poop so *gold*

FTFY

The irony of his character is that while everything he does is for his family (as an institution), he was incapable of expressing love for his children, which resulted in their impaired development.

This is contrasted with Tywin's own upbringing; his father loved him and his siblings dearly and that provided them with the necessary emotional bedrock. But Tytos was a poor ruler who let his subordinate houses trample over him like a doormat which culminated in a rebellion against the Lannisters due to their perceived weakness.

So Tywin only learned half of the lessons he should've from his father's reign, that he needed to be stern, ruthless, and pragmatic as that was what was needed to be done to quell House Reyne's rebellion, and he expected this much from all of his children. Tywin left out the other half that made it possible for him to become the man he was though, the love of his father. That was what undid Tywin in the end: the inability to express compassion for Tyrion. His obsession with the reputation of House Lannister at the expense of the individuals who comprise it was his downfall.

What's west of Westoros?

The sunset sea.

no one had a better story
he deserved the throne

no one had a better story

Bran the Broken?