/andor/ - Uncle Harlo Edition

Rewriting history to make something evil that wasn't is just false media propaganda; the Empire saved the galaxy from partitioning itself into a Balkanized hellscape at the mercy of slavers, pirates, corpos, and warlords.

Our first introduction to the Empire ever was them blowing up an entire planet.

Syril's silence says more than Luthen's words ever could.

i'd argue it's the text that calls them the 'evil Empire'

but i have a short attention span. maybe the text was an unreliable narrator (it's now canon it was written by Whills)

They were described as evil and then seen doing something evil but there will always be bootlickers saying they aren't evil.

i always see the Alderaan thing as a "well, we're here now, so we might as well."
your dad driving you 'all the way' to the dentist or your uncle's. fuel costs and so on.

In Episode 6, when they go kill Gorst... How did Andor and Bix know where the fuck he was in the first place? Was Luthen goading Andor into solving a problem indirectly by going to see Bix? Unless I am mistaken, they sort of waltzed into a very secure location, knew where he was going to be (alone and at a precise time), set up explosives, and then got out... somehow without anyone noticing except the fat guard that Bix shoots when she's leaving.

Might as well kill a billion people since we are here

Ghormons were insurgents an got what they fucking deserved.

LONG LIVE THE EMPIRE

Turns out ISB had someone leaking information.

I presumed Luthen's ISB mole told them exactly where and how everything was being set up for the new Gorst *division.*

Unironically not canon, any never really was due to the insane spectrum system that people used when the EU was canon. Disney tying their books/comics/games and other shit into their "canon" is even more questionable.

Oh, the faggy moustache dipshit?

in some earlier ISB scene they discuss Gorst is en route and whatnot, so i can buy Luthen having that as ~intelligence~, Bix finding out.

thought it would lead to Luthen being ruffled that he was right, she's a loose canon, jeopardizing everything for revenge. i suppose he was just fine with it, or it was even a mission. convenient stuff.

also did she get sober? i feel like with the time skips, stuff is actually missing (not 'doesn't need to be told', genuinely lost on the cutting room floor).

If saying it only made it so, but by any metric the Empire improved on everything it touched. Look at the state of things in its absence, and the truth is unveiled for all to see.

also did she get sober? i feel like with the time skips, stuff is actually missing (not 'doesn't need to be told', genuinely lost on the cutting room floor).

I haven't finished the show yet, but I also wondered about this. Kind feels like Gilroy thought Bix getting sober arc would be too boring and slashed it. I just started 7 and apparently Andor got injured at some point?

Yeah. Ghorman definitely got an upgrade. It is not an inhabitable planet.

they also have conversations about past effects: "you shot a kid" (i feel dumb, was that something on-screen?)

girlfriend getting a drug/drink addiction is TV poison, but they spent some time establishing it here. maybe murdering the guy cured the underlying issues. nothing addictive about drugs, it's all trauma.

also did she get sober?

The implication is that her getting to kill Gorst means he stopped haunting her dreams, which means no more need for spice to sleep. That said, she probably spent months on Yavin detoxing and getting Force healed to kick the addiction, because even the Empire didn't legalize the shit for reasons.

Counterpoint: Tatooine being under Imperial authority provided opportunities to its miscreant population that the Hutts never did, unless your highest aspiration was to be a gangster's triggerman or debt-slave spice runner.

You are talking about a post collapse reconstruction era where Imperial remnants were still very strong, and eventually capable of centralizing their power back to the point that the remnants gained minority control over the galaxy once more. Granted, it was for like... five minutes, but they still did it.

IMO, a big part of why they keep kicking new "STAR WARS" films down the road is because they don't know what the fuck do with the greater setting now. The Mando movie is just going to be a longer, more expensive version of an episode from the show. It's not "STAR WARS". Have they even mentioned if they have a plan of some kind? I thought I saw an article about a month ago of them tapping someone to direct the next film since D&D's contract was murdered, Johnson's film agreement seems dead, and that talk of Paul Feig directing was so long ago it feels like another lifetime.

Counterpoint doesn't matter when your argument includes the word "everything"

So fucking true

And your argument that one rebellious world getting gouge-mined equates to all-encompassing evil is just false equivalence.

unknown reasons

He's a mama's boy incel. That's why

by any metric the Empire improved on everything it touched

You said this. Not me.

last few major SW games flopped

David Cage's AAA SW game is in the wind

KOTOR remake is dead

no one likes the Ahsoka show

the cartoons are a vacuum

Mando popularity at an all time low

Andor is only popular with people who like the setting for more than "WHOA COOL LASER SWORD/THE FORCE!!!"

No new movies

This fucking franchise is dead, isn't it?

i watched this live:
youtube.com/watch?v=nVZ3QwA5wy8

more theatre than anything in Star Wars. (she seems nice. but she also retired, despite ostensibly believing all this? wut.)

And you brought up Ghorman like that was supposed to mean something, but it really doesn't when held up vs Alderaan, whom nobody misses.

I bought up Ghorman because you said any metric. Are you now moving the goalpost on your own statement?

The unreliable narrator component of Star Wars is the fact that the Jedi genuinely believed they never did anything ethically questionable and that their only moral failures were not killing Palpatine before he seized power.

The Jedi largely failed to realize that Palpatine was merely a symptom of ongoing problems and that the Republic with a theocratic order operating its CIA was all going to collapse on itself eventually.

The real Disney rewrite is that the rebellion was largely incompetent and ran by so many different radical parties that there was virtually no hope for it to assemble a stable or successful "New Republic." The entire rebellion is bankrolled off the backs of the "bad guys" in the prequel trilogy- the CIS. And then Disney takes that to its natural conclusion- the New Republic disbands its military under Mon Mothma and then immediately collapses. Part of it is JJ Abrams "rebooting" the story so it could've been retroactive introduction of incompetence. But it is a true statement that people who can win wars typically can't run countries.

Rebel worlds are denied the Empire's grace, simple as. Bring real evidence of the Empire visiting evil on its loyal subjects or concede that "evil" doesn't apply to the most effective government the galaxy has ever known.

I know someone who unironically posts these leftist andor text memes on their instagram stories

It's so terrifying to see fascism taking root in the US. Just the other day Congressmen were arrested for protesting against an ICE concentration camp, just like in Andor! If we don't do something now, then it'll be too late.

So not any metric? And not everything?
Got it.

Even in their fantasies there's a bitch being useless and playing with her phone.

the Bureau of Standards has an evildoing quota.

woman on her phone, which would get pinged by a tower

Way to go, dipshit.

Just admit you have nothing, it will only hurt your ego briefly.

maybe she's getting the message out to the people.

Lonnie and Dedra's ex-assistant have access to gorst's new location, partagaz tells them about it.

Will he survive? Hes like the only likable character.

Which is funny because you are the one who said >any metric

everything

And within a few post, you are now claiming it is not any metric and everything. Which is hilariously ironic in a show which had a main character say this

The distance between what is said and what is known to be true has become an abyss

Because this literally happens in less than 20 post on a Anon Babble thread

Mon Mothma getting rid of the military was just a retarded explanation that allowed for the plot contrivance that Disney wanted:

The Republic must always be rebels!

They can't have their gay soi swords and le hekkin' forcerinos narratives if they don't force this point. Mothma would never have gotten rid of the military because the fucking Empire didn't suddenly just explode all at once because Palpatine "died". The truly insane thing is that Disney mostly realized this issue with the 9th film and so they actually did have the Empire fucking all explode at once when Palpatine dies from Korra, I mean Rey.

Engineering a false flag has to fill their yearly quota

of course, how else will he be in Syril: A Star Wars Story?

Why do so many people object to an evil empire being shown as evil?

Competency makes Villains formidable, and they must have that for there to be verisimilitude (Luthin & Tarkin are twins). After that this somewhat: the Force would be committing suicide allowing the Republic in its decrepit state to hobble along until Vong/whatever invades from beyond Wild Space. And stealing kids to prevent a prophecy so your cult can puppet the government is less than reasonable even less allowing a too old prodigy to join while keeping his slave mother on his conscience when you have thousands of years of funds to buy her off, just in case something b--ACK!

Vong

Not canon

Luthin & Tarkin are twins

Excuse me.

stop pretending to be all hysterical. this is a fun space show.

The acolyte thread is down the road sir

MIGAfags wondering why Trump is being discussed these past episodes

Vong

You guys have to stop thinking it's 2008 still. None of that shit is canon. The "Emperor had to unite the galaxy so that he could prepare it for the Vong invasion!" narrative died when they shelved the EU. Honestly, one of the few good things Disney did because the Vong were insanely gay, and the idea that Palpatine was a good guy doing bad things for good reasons is just patently fucking absurd.

It would have been so much better if the Republic had a proper military and the Imperial Remnants were reduced to using their old equipment for guerrilla warfare. Turn the whole franchise on its head.

Sequels were a mistake and it is clear Disney has no idea what to do post sequel.

That is what happens in the EU. Empire falls apart, but the remnants are obviously still competent and capable just because the head of the snake is dead. So they go around and start establishing their own bases of power, and what not. Leading to the Republic having to deal with formidable (if unaligned) military foes while trying to deal with the cultural ramifications of the Empire and attempting to bring about a return to democracy. It's Andor in reverse, but the rebel factions have fuckin' Stardestroyer fleets and armies.

And clones. Don't forget a whole bunch of fucking clones. The EU was a fucking mess.

Fuck it.
Give me the recommended reading list for the EU. I've put this off long enough.

My best guess is that OT Empire were "cartoonish" evil. They were "baddies" in a fictional, black & white way that doesn't bear similarity to how a person recognises their real life political enemies.
You don't see the stormtroopers raping farm daughters or stomping on the heads of rodian children with their bugblood squirting out, so they remain the "villain" ingredient of this overall comforting, childish setting about "good vs evil" where the evil is like Skeletor or Megatron or something.
People then get nostalgic for the comfort of this childish conception where the villains didn't do realistic, horrific things.

Or they spent thousands on a storm trooper cosplay and now can't quite find it in themselves to put it on.

Because they're limp-dick retards who think that putting on a strong face makes for a strong nation. They want so badly to be the big tough guys with snazzy uniforms who get to do whatever they want, but they blanch at the thought of being the regular folk getting their skulls caved in. Put simply, they're either too much of a pussy to be fascists, or are actually fascists but don't like it when they're shown as what they are: a bunch of retards who flip out at the merest notion of being told No for once in their lives.

The Empire has institutionalised slavery and actively works alongside massive criminal gangs, megacorporations, and independent warlords as convenient.

They got to be into masochism cause why the fuck are they watching Star Wars otherwise?

even when people around me in the real world rape or kill, there's usually drugs, mental illness, abuse, something-or-other going on.

actual psychopath types should have some support, even. the fuck are we going to do? gas them?

Nah. Just wait for them to turn 18.

I genuinely haven't read a single Star Wars book in my life. I just know (broadly) what happened in the EU because when I was in HS, several of my friends were insane Star Wars autists and I picked up this shit passively.

Just don't watch the show if you're retarded.

Star Wars: Union, of course.

I've read about 10 or 15, they were all good. Timothy Zahn's Heir to the empire is considered to be the best of the best however

Heir to the empire

It is also known as the "Thrawn Trilogy" colloquially, and is a trilogy. It is so beloved by fans that even though Onions Wars made the EU non canon, they had to bring Thrawn back into canon via some Disney cartoon. Thrawn was one of the top Admirals int he fleet and was off doing something, I forget what, when the rebels won and came back to a defeated Empire. He stared a guerrilla campaign against the rebels and even found a way to neutralize Jedi force powers, though I wont spoil it. He was a master tactician and some say an even better and formidable villain than the emperor himself

First character since Tarkin to give a sense for the rank and file ethos-- that's the Imperial Remnant in EU to a tee. Werner knew how to make them scarier than cross eyed Storm Troopers. It's just a shame we're only getting Dollar General Admiral Daala warlord Red Wedding at best.

That's really what Star Wars frequently lacks in its antagonists - actual justification. It's fine for Palpy himself to be genuinely pure evil because that's his role as an evil overlord, but everyone else should think they're justified because the alternative is the Empire is made up of crazy people. We should hear endless horror stories of how terrible life for [insert Imperial officer/citizen here] was during the Clone Wars, because it was those kinds of stories that made the real life collapse of the Roman Republic palatable to the average Roman citizen.

because the alternative is the Empire is made up of crazy people.

And? You are telling it like human history doesn't have examples for cruel and greedy regimes.

Essential guide to warfare which acts as a broad overview of inverse SW history and a swansong to legends due to coming out in 2012. From there take a dip into any era of the above which interest you. Video game wise KOTOR I & II if your into rpgs but they take place thousands of years before the movies (one of the main characters of II is a direct criticism of how the force was portrayed throughout all of star wars up to the publication of the game). The main WEG TTRPG source books provide foundational lore and fluff to SW that has remained the bedrock of the franchise ever since (Rebel and Imperial source books come recommended, Rebel one introduced Parkin Tarkin for example). GOAT is Plaegius by James luceno, the dsrk Lord trilogy is decent but has a weakish third book. Republic commando for tacticool clone commandos which ping-pong from based to absolute mandowank cringe beskar 1000 times folded shit. Zahn again as EU foundational and the X-wing series for Starfighter focused books in the Warlord era. Legends essential comics collections range in quality so YMMV. If you want malay emergency/Vietnam War in space read shatterpoint by Matthew stover featuring Mace Windu.

All of those regimes were run by people who thought it was justified. Nobody is "cruel" for no good reason unless you're in a literal cult, and even then it's only a tiny minority.

don't speak about lonni like that
unsung hero of s2

Nobody is "cruel" for no good reason unless you're in a literal cult

Wrong. History has shown plenty of people who are cruel for the sake of greed, power or lust. You must be naive as fuck if you think people are altruistic by nature and they just happen to do an oopsies and commit evil.

God I love Olive Garden. I wish Italy was real