I don't think I like Doctor Who anymore. Old and new

I don't think I like Doctor Who anymore. Old and new.

I love Doctor Who!

don't let new influence your perception of old.
just forget that new ever existed.

Nuwho > classic who

how much old who have you actually seen?

no argument

Most of it, but I skipped most of the black & white ones and the boring ones.

Anyone got the webm of the feminists shitting on the doctor (tennant)?

Nuwho is faster paced and has cooler stories.

I liked last week's episode, and the week before.
This week's episode was kinda awful.

straight forward working class guy in a leather jacket, who doesn't cry or let people talk down to him all of the time

best Doctor of the reboot

Hmmmmm

ok fried brain zoomer.

Speaking of, has Eccleston had any really good BFs yet, or is that whole thing a non-starter?

literally kneels in front of his Goddess companion because he couldn't save the day

nah

modern Big Finish

ever being good

Remains the best Doctor.

His big finish audios says other-wise

If youre not getting stoned and watching it ironically you have abysmal taste

So that's why I was able to get through a whole story. I have to be high to watch this shit.

Why couldn't they just use 8? McGann even wanted his Doctor to look exactly like Eccleston's before filming the TV movie. Just have the Time War be what fucked him up. The books even had him destroy Gallifrey to end a Time War and it would've been a great way to profit more off those books by making it seem like they matter to the new show.

McGann even wanted his Doctor to look exactly like Eccleston's before filming the TV movie. Just have the Time War be what fucked him up.

rommanian doctor who

I never liked the old one, it was too childish for me, even the immense charisma and presence of Tom Baker couldn't pull it off. I wish it was a wee bit more clever. I quite liked the first four series of NuWho, it was scratching that SG-1/Farscape/Firefly comfy and fun sci-fi adventure itch for me in an era when everyone thought they should be as "serious" and edgy as Battlestar Galactica in order to be successful. Then it kind of went downhill during series 5 & 6 and especially afterwards.

I quite liked the first four series of NuWho

Yes, we know. You're a homosexual.

Then it kind of went downhill during series 5 & 6 and especially afterwards.

RTDtranny

Twitter is calling last episode right-wing propaganda

He's not even an incel, especially if he managed to get with Ruby.

durrrr tennennnt duhhhh bllleeeeee

Classic is more childish than NuWho

the only good Doctor Who was David Tennant!

That means I love it now, we should definitely tune in next week to watch more gripping episodes of Doctor Who(tm)

Nuwho has more adult stuff.

Most of their audience aren't incels and schizos.

couldn't save the day

He was going to kill billions and that's fucking based. The Doctor should murder more fools.

we should definitely tune in next week to watch more gripping episodes of Doctor Who(tm)

This but unironically. Given the midnight sequel was supposed to originally be the African gods story Gatwa wanted, before Russel stepped in and made it Midnight 2. And episode 5 got turned into the African gods episode. It's gonna be a gripping experience watching how they cock it up this time.

555-COMON-NOW

True. He is based.

And he's not the only one.

nah he's right faggot

Well, at least with the homosexual at the helm show didn't had a major character whole raison d'etre of which was "I'm a lesbian". Inb4: "some recent example from RTD2 era", I don't know and don't care, never watched it, never will be; I'm officially done with Doctor Who. 2023 specials weren't perfect in the slightest, but they provided some sort of closure the show desperately needed after more that a decade of misuse (in that they are similar to season 3 of Star Trek Picard in context of TNG movies and the first two seasons being real and "canon").

Capaldi's era > Tennant's era

Point me to a classic Who episode that has the same emotional resonance as Dalek in series 1.

Pete McTighe's Children of Earth: The preparations are in place, and the British government is ready to hand its children to the 456. However, one man threatens to expose the scheme. Can Torchwood prevent him from speaking out and make sure the children are delivered sucessfully?

Those 2023 Trannant specials were fucking terrible. I piss and shit on faggots like you. You cried and stomped your feet for your beloved actor to return, and it was a pile of feces.

I like Capaldi more as an actor than Tennant, but the writing of his era was ABSOLUTELY ABYSMAL. They had the perfect guy to play angry and morally ambiguous Doctor, and they just blew it. It makes me so sad. It was the time when I watched the show with "going through the motions" feeling, as some sort of obligation to a dear friend, rather out of enjoyment.

The Giggle is one of the best episodes of the entire show.

Literally what is so appealing to people about David Tennant?
Everything about his Doctor is just kind of irritating, an gets under your skin in a bad way.
He's this guy youtube.com/watch?v=-rj1SFtxRTg

but the writing of his era was ABSOLUTELY ABYSMAL

Not it fucking wasn't, cope.

They were like below average episodes of series 4, but I watched them in conjunction with 2022 specials, and they (2023 ones) felt like a breath of fresh air to me. Like, "We can have somewhat fun characters and simple unconvoluted stories again? Yay!".

If you're a flaming homo.
You're a fucking moron.

Not it fucking wasn't

Sure, if you like pretentious tell-don't-show smelling-your-own-farts kind of writing Moffat is famous for. I bet you think Heaven Sent is one of the best episodes ever made.

David Tennant As The Doctor (TM) just stands there like a chump as a tranny lectures him about how a man could never know how a woman's body works

You're a fucking moron.

Why, thank you, kind sir.

Share with the class anon. What is the best episode of nu-who?

Journey's End.

Heaven Sent > Journey's End

The episode where the Dalek turns good, because Rose touches it?
Literally the only good thing about that episode is seeing the Doctor flip out and go psycho at the Dalek.
Plus, Jubilee was way better.

Plus, Jubilee was way better.

Based. Dalek was a story made for Colin both literally and figuratively.

I CLAPPED I CLAPPED WHEN THEY BROUGHT BACK DAVID TENNANT I CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAPPED FINALLY THE SHOW HAD SOMEWHAT FUN CHARACTERS AND SIMPLE UNCONVOLUTED STORIES AGAIN

He looked like fucking Kramer here. Awful.

nuwho's pinaccle of emotion according to nufags is actually a rehash of an early BF audio predating all NuWho themes

OHNONONONONO AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

this was a cool episode

I utterly despise your kind. I bet you think season 3 of Pisscard was good because RLM told you it was. You disgusting troglodyte.

based Heaven Sent relativist

Is this show one of those Revenge of the Nerds type things where the the protag is some geek who has others fight for him and always clowns on the "jocks" with guns?

Nuwho has more gay stuff.

ftfy

why are you from the north?

cant tell if serious

I'm going full contrarian here, but it's Nightmare in Silver. It actually made the Cybermen feel like a formidable extinction-level threat instead of silly robots.

Again, context is king. It was watched right after Chibnall's ones and those felt like a fucking chore to sit through.

Again, point me to particular episodes of classic Who, so I could watch them and compare. I'm OK with being wrong.

It also jettisons a lot of what was interesting and clever about Jubiliee
It's actually a story about how the Doctor Who fanbase harbors unspoken bloodlust, and a desire to see the Daleks(or other villains) be defeated over and over again, and in a strange way they love the genocidal monsters

I bet you think season 3 of Pisscard was good because RLM told you it was

I think it was passable and the best think it did is essentially erasing Nemesis and the first two seasons out of continuity. I also think RLM were too lenient on it, because it was basically a Rogue One of TNG.

it's good because it retcons all the bad!

God you're such a faggot NPC. Just kill yourself.

pretty much what it became

Nuwho is so bad it's retroactively made the older shows unwatchable because I know where this all leads.
I could tolerate the Tennant and Smith stuff, and Capaldi had some amazing episodes, but knowing it becomes a soapbox for far left gibberish where every character on the good side is gay or a minority and white people are bad just sours me on the whole thing.

It's not enough to just condense and repeat what I said in a snarky condescending tone in order to NOT be an NPC. I don't see much original thought coming from YOU, see.

You know what? I can't point out a single classic who episode which stands out for me. I can't.
The Genesis of the Daleks? It's highly regarded, sure. Didn't like it though. Baker is not very good at giving dramatic speeches.
The Tomb of the Cybermen? Only the scene of them crawling out of their storage is a memorable one.
Battlefield? It's got extreme power rangers vibe. Love Nick Courtney though.
The Tenth Planet is probable the only one worth watching nowadays. And only because the Cybermen from that episode fall straight into the uncanny valley.

the TNG cast are just the actors playing themselves, no attempt is made to "be" Riker or "be" Worf

Picard is still just a weak old fart

still has inappropriate Whedon quips every 5 seconds

Crusher hid a son from Picard for twenty-something years... she would never do this. Fuck off.

changelings are the villains because. uh.

actually it was THE BORG this whole time!!!

ROTJ Death Star core scene!! except it's the Enterprise inside of a Borg cube

Jack Crusher, our Gary Stu, decides he hates humans and wants to be a Borg. Then he changes his mind and it's okay.

the moral is that the "young folks" use technology too much and they need their parents to save them

BUT IT'S GOOD BECAUSE IT PRETENDED ALL THE BAD STUFF NEVER HAPPENED

Most of the white people aren't even bad.

Hot take? It's The Eleventh Hour. It was a perfect opener (that they never quite matched the quality of, despite Matt Smith having some pretty good episodes here and there)

those three episodes in a row in series 4 (sontaran two parte and /the godawful jenny one) where 10 rants about how he hates guns and soldiers didn't tip you off?

The Twin Dilemma is great.

I'm actually so astounded by how many people think it's good. It's a piece of contrived garbage, a quintessence of shittiness of Moffat's style of writing. I'm feeling like an alien that nobody else gets in, just like I felt back in 2011 when I was saying that Sherlock is a piece of shite, while everyone were so in love with it.

Because killing people is bad.

It's a cool Twilight Zone style high-concept.
You have to actually like science fiction, so you probably wouldn't get it. Not enough gabby council estate rabble talking about chips for your liking, methinks.

People act as if Series 4 was the pinnacle of NuWho but it has so much shit in it, like those aforementioned episodes. Can't stand The Sontaran Statagem/The Poison Sky. UNIT is utterly incompetent. The Doctor keeps turning to the camera to say GUNS AND SOLDIERS ARE BAD! That annoying little rat kid is a shitty actor even for British TV. Then those are immediately followed by The Doctor's Daughter, with le badass clone Jenny (Georgia Moffet is a shitty actress) and the Doctor keeps turning to the camera to say GUNS AND SOLDIERS ARE BAD!

I agree with most of the points you just made, but it still wasn't as bad as Nemesis or the first seasons. And again, I haven't used the word "good", I used the word "passable", please stop strawmanning.

yeah, all of that subtext couldn't make sense with a new audience. and yet RTD chose this story to reintroduce the Daleks, proving once more how narrow his vision of the show is.

Go fight in a war then.

Series 4 rankings.

Partners in Crime - good

The Fires of Pompeii - good

Planet of the Ood - okay

The Sontaran Stratagem/The Poison Sky - awful

The Doctor's Daughter - trash, down there with the worst of NuWho

The Unicorn and the Wasp - great

Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead - kino

Midnight - good

Turn Left - kino

The Stolen Earth/Journey's End - awful

Sometimes you have to have a well trained military (with guns!), to stop even worse things from happening, and the Doctor is a hypocrite to pretend he doesn't understand this, considering all of the times he has fought wars, used guns, and rigged space ships to explode, among other things.

oh, but he uses his mind, so he is le clever!

So he's freelance a military tactician?

I agree with you that it's shit. But it's passable, so therefore it's a masterpiece.

You belong in an extermination camp.

MUH EMOTION

if you want this go watch a telenovela. Doctor Who is a sci-fi anthology, not a power fantasy for EastEnders girls in space.

Midnight > Turn Left

There's no reasoning with him or any other RTDfag. Their idea of Doctor Who came from the 2005-2009 series, where it just ripped off Buffy and other American teen dramas.

The Unicorn and the Wasp - great

No way that a giant fucking wasp for a villain was not a problem for you.

RTD reminds me of how people criticise Zach Snyder. How he can read a comic like Watchmen and all he comes away with is "these costumes are so cool, and the violence is so kickass!"

this but unironically.

You have to actually like science fiction

What are your favourite sci-fi books? Mine are The Sirens of Titan, A Canticle for Leibowitz, Hard to be a God by Strugatsky brothers, Foundation series, Moon is a Harsh Mistress and some of the Stanisław Lem's comedic stuff, like The Cyberiad (he's actually quite funny, if only a bit dry). I haven't read much of sci-fi since high school and I know next to nothing about the modern state of the genre (except reading The Expanse novels after the TV show, because after I watched season 3, the Abaddon's Gate arc, I said to myself "this is how modern Star Trek should be done").

leaves a kid behind

the kid dies

shakes it off and plays cricket

if you want this go watch a telenovela

You haven't watched a single telenovela in your life, haven't you?

You have to actually like science fiction

science fiction implies logical reasoning even with made-up concepts which is precisely where the episodes completely falls apart.

I've blinked but I'm still alive sadly.

No wonder, because I don't see much reasoning coming from you, only sheer derisiveness. Not the best way to reason with someone, wouldn't you agree?

quite the contrary my dear anon, which is why I recommend nufags to go watch them. maybe it will help them realise how shitty RTD's writing is even in the emotional range.

Heaven Sent > Blink

My teenage favourites were the Dune series, every Arthur C Clarke book I could get my hands on (Rama was the best), The Red Dwarf and Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy novels, I Am Legend, More Than Human, the occasional Doctor Who New Adventures novel, like Cat's Cradle: Warhead or Love and War (I dropped off at Lucifer Rising, which wasn't very good)

I don't read so much now because distractions, but I recently read Out of the Silent Planet which was very cute.

Where does the logical reasoning of Heaven Sent break down?

Doctor Who has no logic anyway, so it doesn't matter.

DW lowkey has no continuity. It's okay as long as logic is consistent within a story.

1) All the plot relies on the fact that the Doctor follows a sequence of events he planned for himself on the very first loop. but we never actually see that first iteration. how has the Doctor managed to escape from the creature for so long during the first loop when he only barely manages to do so in the planned loops?
2) If the whole castle is supposed to reset itself, why were the changes the Doctor made during the very first loop allowed to persist? This is a crucial part of theDoctor's escape plan, and there is zero explanation for it.
3) What does the creature kill the Doctor for? Nothing suggests that the Doctor would be reborn without him messing with the teleporter. So, in the normal operation of the dial, the creature kills you if you refuse to answer, and that's all? What kind of torture room is this? This whole set-up makes zero sense.
4) Why the fuck didn't Rassilon just stop the loops? If all of this was set up by Rassilon to get info from the Doctor, why would the torturer behave exactly the same billions of times and let the Doctor make the exact same answers, down to the very letter, billions of times? Why the fuck isn't there ANY kind of exterior monitoring? In such a torture room, either you try attrition, either you reset your prisoner's state of mind and you try a different strategy every time. Letting yourself get stuck in a loop is completely dumb, and it isn't a big victory for the Doctor if he escaped only because the Time Lords are literally the worst torturers in the Universe.

5) The Doctor killing himself is never invalidated as a strategy. even if obviously the Doctor doesn't want to kill himself so he can save Clara, the Time Lords don't know about that, they don't consider Clara relevant. Once again, in what kind of torture room do you let the prisoner free to move around, including to kill himself?
6) What exactly is the purpose of the uber-diamond wall other than being a literal plot device? The Doctor says it's an emergency escape, but for whom? maintenance? it can't be since there is no monitoring. and how is it supposed to work as an emergency escape anyway, if it's almost unbreakable?
7) Why is the dial abandoned in the middle of the desert? Why not in space to kill the Doctor instantly if he somehow gets out?

Well, I've watched them too (a perk of growing up in a post-Soviet country in the 90s, that Latin American stuff was literally everywhere, with people calling each other on the phone and discussing each and every episode), and I came to believe that RTD stuff is a bit better, even if it really heavily borrows from Joss Whedon's proverbial book of writing (which wasn't such a bad thing back in 2000s).

It does when the showrunner and writers care.

No one can fix the fact that Susan said she named the Tardis in one of the first episodes, and then they ignored it for the rest of the show's run.

where it just ripped off Buffy and other American teen dramas.

Which is still an unattainable level for most TV shows today, not to mention sci-fi ones. Like, give me something like Veronica Mars instead of most of the modern slop, and I will take it any time.

Doc Who's ass to watch if you grew up with 80s-00s action movies and shows. Especially since the main guy rarely ever takes part in the action and just runs a lot. Makes him look wimpy and lame.

well even if that is true, this has nothing to do in Doctor Who in the first place, unless it is very carefully and slowly set up like it originally was in the EU books and audios that RTD ripped off.

But it's passable, so therefore it's a masterpiece.

Pray tell, how did you arrive to such a staggering conclusion? Because I sure didn't.

Series 1 is closer to being old who than it is to being modern who

this has nothing to do in Doctor Who in the first place

Why?

it's even worse than that. Susan leaving the Doctor to "live her life" with a human is completely incompatible with a) her being an alien b) her being able to regenerate. but a) and b) were retcons introduced by later producers who deliberately ignored Susan because they thought that nobody cared (which in truth was mostly correct, but still).

Never felt it when I was trying to watch Pertwee and Baker era stuff.

Each body lasts a 1000 years sans accidents. She'd outlive him before she could ever regenerate.

because of the fucking format. you can't expect Classic longevity without the Classic format. the moment you introduce "actual" character development and therefore require the episodes to be watched in a certain order, with "finales" and "openings", you turn DW into a normal show with standard longevity. regeneration and soft reboots will only work once or twice.
Classic managed to GAIN viewers for 7 years straight because they could jump in at any time. meanwhile NuWho has been continuously losing viewers since Tennant left, because most viewers considered this as the natural end of the series.

Who was always too strange to have mass appeal but it could be sustained on the loyalty of a few autists. It turned those autists away for the mythical modern audience, which does not in fact exist in large enough quantities to keep the lights on. Every studio became convinced that Twitter was real life and there were millions of genderqueer pansexual nonwhite people dying for a new franchise to throw money at.

meanwhile NuWho has been continuously losing viewers since Tennant left, because most viewers considered this as the natural end of the series.

Didn't help that had him say goodbye to all his friends in the past 4 series like it was the SERIES finale instead of a standard one. That wasn't smart.

for sure, Eccleston's Doctor does feel a lot more like he fell out of the classic era(he's something in between Tom Baker, Colin Baker, Sylvester McCoy and Paul McGann)
The idea of the Doctor basically just being a massive pussy, a social worker, or a gay best friend hadn't quite metastasized in the public's imagination yet.

Eccleston's Doctor, when viewed from a certain angle, is a strange Ne'er-do-well, hanging around the streets, abducting young girls from council estates, which is basically a continuation of what they started to lean into with the Ace relationship at the end of the original run.

the show is an anthology where all but few stories are independent. that's how Doctor Who had always been on TV prior to RTD thinking he knew better and giving the decades-old show an opportunistic highly circumstantial 3-season "peak" and then immediately fucking off leaving others to cope with the unsustainable format and the new audience's inaccurate expectations.
but after RTD's success NuWho always had complete and total support of the BBC even with low ratings. and yet it still collapsed all by itself. because its format put all the powers in the hands of one guy with no safeguards, and because its format requires 10 high-budget stories a year which is deeply unsustainable for the BBC in the long run and inevitably leads to shitty filler writing and stupid stakes race.

Who was always too strange to have mass appeal

Because

the protag wasn't a true man of action

the action that was there was ass

the effects were ass

the acting was mostly ass

too many of the stories were ass

RTD had to suck himself off one last time.
Notice Moffat's last episode was nowhere near as self-fellating. It's just ghosts of Bill, Nardole, and then Clara for 2 seconds. No overly drawn out farewell tour.

No overly drawn out farewell tour.

Except for 11.

Smith's era was the most popular.

The time war changed him.

It seems like we have rather different tastes. I never was a big fan of the Dune series, the first book was essentially a bildungsroman set in a sci-fi universe, and after that book it kind of lost steam and became quite tedious after book three, neither I liked Clarke (I think I had at home The Sands of Mars and The Light of Other Days, and I wasn't exactly awed by either of those) and I always failed to understood why people love The Red Dwarf so much, it's just wasn't funny to me. I liked The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy novel quite a bit back when I was a teenager (and was too much into Monty Python and the original Fallout games), but I have a strong feeling that it wouldn't hold up if I were to re-read it now.

Cat's Cradle: Warhead or Love and War

Isn't that a bit shameless, with the name?

in the US. his UK ratings were lower than Tennant. the split S7 and Clara's introduction was the final push towards the slope.

My ass it was. Tennant's was the popular one.

Notice Moffat's last episode was nowhere near as self-fellating.

Didn't stop River from being a really dumb character. Giving her the ability to regenerate is some basic bitch fanfiction shit.

Isn't that a bit shameless, with the name?

Dunno what you mean. They're good books, at least by Doctor Who book standards.

Which season of Who should I start with?

Depends on what you're looking for.

Was it really any worse than Rose becoming a goddess or Donna becoming the Doctor with the metacrisis one too?

>the acting was mostly ass

Classic WHO acting is probably the only thing it does consistently well and one of the main reasons it survived for so long. The effects are janky as fuck and plots generally aren't much better, but everyone on the set still gives it 100% and it makes it believable, or at least compelling.

Warhead was shit. "near-future" stories in Doctor Who are always a bad idea but this one was too overly preachy (think Praxeus except everyone but the Doctor does the preaching), and the Doctor used a super convoluted plan for no real reason.

My point is that the character didn't really change that much until Tennant though. That was when "nu-Who" fully arrived. Series one is almost a hang-over from McCoy and the Wilderness years.
I'm sure the stuff about a young girl going missing from a council estate and her family and friends treating it as a kidnapping (because of course they would) is lifted directly from the VNA's, in fact.

Dunno what you mean.

The Vonnegut's novel. Quite a fun read (but it leans more into satirical and absurdist territory rather than a sci-fi).

The acting isn't as good as nuwho.

I like 90's cyberpunk, and street punk shit. It's guilty pleasure.
I also like Prayer of the Rollerboys (which I highly recommend)

There was that classic who serial that took place in 2018.

Yeah classic acting is way better

Well, a cat's cradle is an actual thing, and it's the name of a particular arc in the VNAs. Warhead is the only good part of that trilogy though. They stopped doing that gimmick pretty quickly.

Dr who is a girls show. I only ever met 1 dude who liked it.

it's the name of a particular arc in the VNAs

Not even an arc. Just standalone stories they pretend forms an arc to bait readers.

Incorrect, most of the extras were cringe, even some of Matthew's was too.

Classic WHO acting is probably the only thing it does consistently well

Most of classic Who acting were akin to adults playing for children in a school play, and no amount of Tom Baker being an absolute GOAT and stealing every scene he was in is going to change that.

yeah, almost all Classic "near-future" stories were in late-Hartnell and Troughton eras not counting the UNIT era which was supposed to be in the near-future but maintained the status quo on everything but a few details
one of the first thing that the EU writers did was to say they actually happened decades later, which affects them in no way at all.
still it's funny to think that at some point during our lifetime the "current year" will actually be the 2nd Doctor's era.

a cat's cradle is an actual thing

I know, but it's kind of like naming your book Dune or Foundation (which are also actual things that exist).

that's why NuWho destroyed Doctor Who forever. by making women its primary target. it truly was NuWars before NuWars.

I never met anyone who liked Dr. Who IRL.

You sound like a gen z cuck. Stuff can be made for girls and Dr who was always for girls as far as I care.

You now remember pic related

FUCK they should have made this as an episode in 2023. Would rather a rip-off of Jubilee than the fucking Star Beast.

has been continuously losing viewers since Tennant left

I believe that is factually incorrect, and NuWho was actually gaining viewership during series 5 era, but it slowly came to an end, and not because people got tired with the show, but I believe because of Moffat's inability to write something that isn't flashy and needlessly convoluted nonsense for main plot.

It really was not. The original series was a family thing, but more specifically a boy thing.
Pertwee's era in particular has heavy boyish appeal about it. The Doctor basically became James Bond for a few years. He drives cool cars, uses cool gadgets, does judo, and is actual best friends with military personal, instead of pretending he's above all of that. They only occasionally come to blows over disagreements about exactly when you should resort to violence instead of negotiating with your enemy, which is a nuance the series completely lost past a certain point.

Has there ever been an actual cool Doctor? Or are they all just weirdo autists who rarely fuck?

Define "cool", my friend.

I still like everything up to Clara leaving. Sure, the search for Gallifrey was rushed, the conclusion was weak and the Hybrid was lame but it´s still a decent point to part ways with the show without becoming bitter. It was a good run.

They're cool because they're weirdo autists who barely fuck.
He fucks far too much these days, frankly.

They're cool because they're weirdo autists who barely fuck.

That shit's the complete opposite of cool, bro.

I remember people thinking Clara was actually the worst thing that happened with the show. Boy, how wrong they were.

Depends on the perspective, "bro".

Not reading that. It’s fine to like girl things. Guys my age likes my little pony. I’ll even admit to liking sailor moon when I was like 8

Define "cool"

youtu.be/PguvPeZT7RE?si=0Fsv1fjTVe63XOj4

Depends on the perspective

If that's what helps you sleep at night, bro.

I don´t remember anyone ever saying that. I remember people ranting over Martha and River Song but Clara was always deemed cute. Some would debate who was cuter if she or Amy but that doesn´t really but that was it.

Now Bill... Bill was shit. No way around that. Can´t say about the ones that came after her because i dropped the show after 4 boring and rather terribly written episodes. Most Doctors had at least one decently good episode by episode 4. So yeah, never got to really know the new posse to see if they were worst than Bill (i just assume with extreme prejudice they were though)

It's ironic how Bruce Willis' character in Die Hard and Arnold one in Predator are considered "cool" and "manly" nowadays, even though McTiernan's goal in both movies were to actually show how vulnerable those kind of heroes could be, and how they rely on their wits instead of pure strength, sort of ridiculing your typical action hero. Later he even did Last Action Hero in a way that even braindead morons who were treating his previous films completely seriously could understood his intent.

It's ironic how Bruce Willis' character in Die Hard and Arnold one in Predator are considered "cool" and "manly" nowadays, even though McTiernan's goal in both movies were to actually show how vulnerable those kind of heroes could be, and how they rely on their wits instead of pure strength, sort of ridiculing your typical action hero

Because they were still men of action who got shit done. They're still fighting the bad guys and saving the day but it's much more earned BECAUSE of the struggle they had to do it. Coming out of the battle all bloodied and battered but still winning will always be a cool visual.

What does that have to do with The End of Time vs Twice Upon a Time

You got old and want more serious shows.
It’s hard to change your self identity

I've always had a crush on Nyssa. Her hair, poofy sleeves, cute face. She makes almost all of Davison's era worth watching. Fuck you

Monks aren't cool

Tesla wasn't cool

Gandalf isn't cool

Girls and Homos wouldn't get it. The stoic non-sex-haver is a symbol of masculinity in itself.

Sailor Moon is outright for redblooded perverts. Nothing wrong with that.

The stoic non-sex-haver is a symbol of masculinity in itself.

Nah, it's this guy.

Smith had higher average ratings on the series proper but lower opening and finale peaks and lower specials.
it's the specials that firmly established Tennant's popularity amongst the casuals. and Smith's first special was a massive disappointment that basically caused casuals to forget about NuWho on Christmas.

Frankly, the notion that the traditional male hero was some kind of emotionless mountain of muscles who never suffered is a simplification perpetuated by people who never engaged with that kind of media in the first place.
The fun part of most hero stories is watching them get fucked up, or have something they love taken from them, and then watching them claw their way back. That's pretty consistent, reaching all of the way back into ancient myth. Look at Sampson and Delilah. Look at Odin who had to sacrifice and eye, and hang himself on a tree for wisdom. Look at Hamlet or Robin Hood, who were men of high standing who had their noble position in society taken from them.
It has always been like this.

Conan likes sex, but is frankly far more interested in conquest. He aint chasing princesses.

Because they were still men of action who got shit done. They're still fighting the bad guys and saving the day but it's much more earned BECAUSE of the struggle they had to do it. Coming out of the battle all bloodied and battered but still winning will always be a cool visual.

Sure, I couldn't agree more. Still it's funny how those characters are co-opted into the entire hyper-masculinity thing (and Robocop too, despite it being an obvious satire of the U.S. culture from the perspective of your typical lefty European intellectual type), when they should rather praise something like Conan the Barbarian (although on a personal level I would prefer that they wouldn't touch that timeless classic with their grubby hands and puny minds).

Power fantasy of a neurotic dollar and a dime sword and sorcery novels writer who committed suicide? Well, if you insist, but it's kind of telling things about you.

Monsters in Metropolis is definitely his best story in Big Finish.

Being a warrior and conqueror is what real masculinity is. Being the geek who studies and doesn't fight isn't.

I mean, the entire point of Conan the Barbarian is hyper masculinity (along with some commentary on how civilisation is decadent, and rewards weak liars and schemers over warriors who can bash in a skull)
I have nothing but positive things to say about Conan. Both the original stories, and the movie.

Power fantasy of a neurotic dollar and a dime sword and sorcery novels writer who committed suicide?

Bro, I don't care about the writer. Just the stories.

The warrior monk is a thing. Gandalf went to war, and fought a demon.

Robert was a real nigga, and you're a philistine.
I get him on deeper levels than you ever will.

I meant the movie, Milius' Conan is an attempt at tackling Nietzsche's philosophy with some fantasy dressing and not-so-subtle anti-left stance. It's much more clever than people give it credit, it has a lots of charm and good dark humour, and Basil Poledouris' soundtrack elevates it to an actual work of art level, the very same way Morricone had elevated Leone's movies. It's literally one of the best movies ever made, and I will die on that hill (and if you do not listen, then to hell with you).

But I am not so fond of novels, actually. They're decent, but that's about all.

Symbolic self-castration is the ultimate marmite.
For some it's a heroic reclamation of one's true self against repressive evil..
For others, it's more like cutting off your dick to spite your balls.
Monks (like nuns) are only interesting in the face of temptation.
Tesla isn't cool; his experiments and material are cool. Just like people don't give a shit about Gandalf without his magic. Sex is symbolically infused in the machine or the big white stick or sonic screwdriver.

Pertwee is probably the closest to what you're describing.

Tesla was very cool. He just didn't give a fuck about all of your human shit, made friends with pigeons, and obsessed over machines. That's a cool guy.
Yearning for one sniff of a woman's shoe, and defining yourself by that, makes you very much not a cool guy.

It has always been like this.

Not in the context of 80s action movies when you have Arnold mostly playing unbeatable wisecracking characters.

Capaldi is GOATed

Yearning for one sniff of a woman's shoe, and defining yourself by that, makes you very much not a cool guy.

The guys that women often chase don't do that. At all. They get the ick from the guys you're describing. Quit coping.

Arnold's breakout hit was Conan. That's a movie where you first see him as a child who's family is killed, and who is taken as a slave, and a lot of core of the movie is him searching for some kind of purpose, and pondering on who he is. That's what makes it satisfying as a thing. It's not just about the muscles.

leaves as a protest against crew mistreatment

it's all for nothing

Damn

He just didn't give a fuck about all of your human shit, made friends with pigeons, and obsessed over machines. That's a cool guy.

You can't even comprehend how limited and insecure you are (if you're not trolling, of course). Please, get help.

Don't forget this. youtu.be/zvRQonLjhFw?si=xemxZRkdLAH2h4nd

Travels back in time to save Gallifrey in the Time War

it's all for nothing

GALLIFREY FALLS NO M-ACK

Coming in here like "I CAN ONLY RESPECT CHARACTERS WHO HAVE CANON SEX ALL THE TIME" says a lot about you.

As for the Doctor, him getting with women has generally been seen as controversial among fans, because he was established as a grandfather. It carries with it the gross factor of a grandfather having sex, and implications of cheating on his wife who is maybe still out there somewhere.
The franchise officially decided it didn't care anymore in the 90's when he kissed a woman on screen, however. There's your answer.

Pertwee is probably the closest to what you're describing.

all the way back in the fucking 70s

What the fuck happened?

Men who spend their lives perusing a passion are the coolest people in the world to me.
I think John Carmack is awesome, and I really don't care how much sex he has had. I don't even think about it. I don't want to think about it.

Conan had put Arnold on a map, but it was The Terminator and to a lesser extent Commando that made him what he was in the 80s, like this relentless one-liner machine.

Coming in here like "I CAN ONLY RESPECT CHARACTERS WHO HAVE CANON SEX ALL THE TIME" says a lot about you.

When did I say that?

him getting with women has generally been seen as controversial among fans, because he was established as a grandfather.

So? He's practically immortal, who cares?

His wife would also be immortal.

Why are you so fixated on someone having or not having sex if you don't care about it? To be honest, it smells to me like a Nietzschean concept of ressentiment.

Because you literally came in here asking if the Doctor ever has sex, and asking me to justify why I like the character.
And I told you, if anything he has too much sex these days. Modern writers don't get the character.

His wife, Patience, died in this story. She supposedly looks like Zoe Harriet.

best doctor

Because you literally came in here asking if the Doctor ever has sex

No one did, bro.

asking me to justify why I like the character

Same as above. This shit's all in your head, bro.

How can you people not scroll up a thread?

How is

Has there ever been an actual cool Doctor? Or are they all just weirdo autists who rarely fuck?

the same as

Because you literally came in here asking if the Doctor ever has sex

asking me to justify why I like the character

12 is the coolest Doctor, and Time Lords don't fuck.

How is that not the same?

Loomfags OUT.

Time Lords don't fuck.

Leela got pregnant by one of them, and her half-human kid may or not be the Doctor.

Heriot. Her name is Zoe fucking Heriot.

say that to Benny.

Because the question was

Has there ever been an actual cool Doctor?

Which he defined as someone who regularly has sex.
To which I replied Gandalf is cool, and he never had sex with no one.
Where is the flaw in my argument?

Zesty is kino
Space Babies is a metaphysical masterpiece
Laughing at incels is zased

Which he defined as someone who regularly has sex.

Where?

Where is the flaw in my argument?

Your argument is flawed because youtu.be/YRQJyrW6oeU?si=k6DncJOtbZ8v4HNX

I'm not reading your own post back to you again. You know what you did.

Do they ever explore the Doctor's family much in the expanded media? I know he had a wife and there's a bunch of different origins for Susan I think.

I've always been curious what the Doctor's actual kids were like. I remember William Hartnell saying he wanted to have a story where the Doctor had an evil son to fight. So I like that idea as a way of explaining why he took Susan. Also adds to the First Doctor being a bit of jerk early on. I can imagine him having a bad relationship with his son and being in some arranged marriage choked by Time Lord tradition so he fucked off. Maybe his son was the president when the Doctor stole the TARDIS to explain the "moon and the president's daughter" thing.

Incorrect.

"You"? Remember that you're on the anonymous imageboard and can speak to multiple persons at the same time. As far as my personal preferences go, I would rather prefer for the Doctor to be an asexual being to further underline his "alienness". If it were up to me, I would've build Doctor as some sort of "child-god" character, who is still very young by his species standards, who's still possesses the curiosity and playfulness of a child, and who is totally fascinated and drawn to humankind (up to a point that in my head I would retcon the appearance of "adult" Time Lords to something like Vorlons from Babylon 5, and the Doctor being the only humanoid ones just because he likes humans that much; he did a couple of tweaks though, because why wouldn't you have two hearts? It could be fun).
But what I don't like is you fixating on the entire sex thing, and not in a healthy way.

Correct

Do they ever explore the Doctor's family much in the expanded media?

Susan had a son that got killed by Daleks. The later stuff brought him back and made him pansexual.

top kek m8

Sounds pretty faggy.

what the Doctor's actual kids were like

anon, I…

Marc Platt, who wrote , intended her to be the Doctor's mother in Lungbarrow. Her revealing her pregnancy to 7, only for him to be adamant that she name the kid after him was the clue-in.

Sorry, but I like my sci-fi to be a bit more cerebral, rather than just "male bald monkey wants to have sex with a female bald monkey". And it's not like the latter is bad per se, it's just you don't need sci-fi for that. Science fiction since time immemorial was about introducing a certain technological or philosophical concept in a futuristic environment, and then explore its influence on both the society and individuals alike, and I would prefer it like that.

I've always been curious what the Doctor's actual kids were like

They're dead. The Other is the Doctor by the way. His name was just lost to time.

after watching a marathon of Peri episodes

male bald monkey wants to have sex with a female bald monkey

Bro, you're weird.

to be more precise, Leela would be the Other's mother. this was a last minute addition to make a nod to the TVM, it wasn't part of the main Masterplan he devised years earlier.

Based

It's The Waters of Mars

Reboot? Series 1. 9-11 tell a complete story and 12's really just the icing on the cake epilogue tying up loose ends.
13-15 is what happens when a show movies past it's narrative closure.
Classic who?
While I respect the classics of Hartnell and Troughton and they've got some fun episodes. Pertwee really kicks off what feels like a continuous narrative through Classic who so you could start there, but you'd really be missing some of Hartnell's and Troughton's best remaining episodes.

Why, thank you, bro.

Movies? Moves*

Personally I would start NuWho right from the beginning and I wouldn't bother with the Classic at all, it's even more dated than the original Star Trek series.

It's more interesting to have him never be loomed, and to be half-human the whole way through. He's a Time Lord mutt that managed to stand alongside literal gods and marry one of them. He's literally one of the Founding Fathers of his home planet. The fact that what made him stand above other Time Lords was the human part makes the message even stronger and contributes to his underdog status.

Personally I would start sucking dick in back alleys

Faggot.

Not canon.

The fact that what made him stand above other Time Lords was the human part makes the message even stronger and contributes to his underdog status.

Same shit with this dude. youtu.be/DReUg3OY2Us?si=QWmBXCcu4F3KHKOd The human half is what makes the difference. What makes them stronger than the rest.

Modern Who started to lose me around the second half of Matt Smith's run. Writing just got lazy, sucking all tension away by making The Doctor an unstoppable god who became less creative towards solutions. Both Matt Smith and Peter Capaldi were great Doctors who were unfortunately given shit scripts, more so the latter. Though they did have some gem episodes/moments here and there. I didn't really watch Jodie Whittaker because she didn't grab me, as she didn't bring anything new to the role. Her performance was just hitting notes from David and Matt's eras. Her TARDIS looked like shit, and frankly none of the episode plots sounded interesting. The accusations of fan sexism also falls flat considering fucking Missy was a really neat take on The Master. Had the first female Doctor channeled that character, she would have been more well received. The current guy is just a fucking pussy who cries all the time and every plot is resolved by other people. Also what the fuck is up with every villain being a god?

But I think a problem Who has suffered from for years is just an over-importance with companions. Amy, Clara, they both got old really fast due to plot reasons. But at the other end we also had some really boring ass companions too like Bill. I wish more companions were like Donna.

Personally I would start NuWho right from the beginning and I wouldn't bother with the Classic at all, it's even more dated than the original Star Trek series.

I think Big Finish is my preferred format of consooming Doccy Who these days.
Sure lot of the modern stuff has connectivity and references to other big finish audios and such, but I appreciate the anthology style of Big Finish and especially the Monthly Range had for a while. Drop in and drop out most stories you want with a Doctor, companion, location and premise you might be interested in.
Modern Who just doesn't have the same choice.

Not canon.

Don't care. It's too interesting to leave alone.

Anyone else feel like Twice Upon a Time up until the regeneration serves as the perfect series finale?

The fans who want the Doctor to be a sexless autist are autists themselves. If he starts acting more normal, they throw a fit because they can't self insert anymore.

I think that's more or less the common consensus. As another post pointed out, Eccleston to Smith works more or less to capping off Nu-Who's Time War storyline. And then Capadli's the epilogue to war and that era of Doctor Who, all the way to confronting your past self and both learning to move on

muh relationship drama

Society was a lot better when being a fag was illegal.

Someone else brings up the subject, I respond, and that makes me obsessed?

It was a bait post anyway. I just wanted to engage in a discussion.

Finally get around to watching Wild Blue Yonder after being turned off by the first special

Turns out to actually be pretty good

Aside from the first ten minutes that were absolute shit (including the contrived reason for their predicament in the first place), I had a good time. Is the Toymaker episode any good or nah?

Is the Toymaker episode any good or nah?

It's got it's pros and cons. If you like NPH hamming it up, then he does a lot of hamming it up as Toymaker, but there's also some rightful complaints you can make about it not feeling anything like the original character. The biggest issue against the episode really boils down to the final chunk of the episode because Russel still can't write finales.

Who said anything about relationship drama?

He literally became a god at the end of series 3 and also in The Waters of Mars too.

I like the episode, NPH as The Toymaker, and the premise to the problem is good. But yes the ending fucking sucks only because the new guy ruins it
Difference is Waters of Mars had stakes, challenges, and of course the consequences of The Doctor messing with time with a god mindset.

The Definitive list of top 5 Nu-Who companions

Rory Williams.

Nardole

>Dan Lewis

Graham O'Brien

Craig Owens

The Other also initially had McGann's face, so the Doctor was just revisiting an "old favorite" when he became 8.

Rory was given a lot because naturally everyone called out the cuckshit early Amy episodes created, which is why the compensated so hard. But truth be told I like Rory's dad more than Rory, despite the shit episode he debuted in. There was just something so endearing about Rory's Pop sitting in the TARDIS sipping tea while he looked at the world below. That right there reminded us that sometimes the most beautiful thing to admire isn't some deep space anomaly, but merely looking at your home from a new perspective.

I'll be honest, I know fuck all about Who lore outside of the ninth and tenth Doctors' runs, so I won't be bothered by the deviation to how the character was. Sounds like it'll be fairly fun then.
Neat. The one thing I was really curious about was the ending, shame that's the worst part, but I'll keep that in mind. I only got back to watching Who because my wife was really curious about the Ring-a-Ding episode, and I gotta say, not insanely impressed. Best part was the Ring-a-Ding himself, and the new Doctor didn't grab me at all really. I might get back to it though, because I do like the higher budget look. I'm just dreading the fact that one of the latest episodes is apparently a Midnight sequel? Worried how they'll fuck up one of the best episodes retroactively.

new guy ruins it

He's better than the 14th Doctor.

What is there redeeming about the new/current guy? All he fucking does is cry

They didn't fuck it up at all, there's barely anything new about the Midnight entity.

That said, you can make super sexed up sci-fi, and that can be great in it's own way. That's Lexx, which is pretty much my favourite TV series ever.
Doctor Who isn't that though, Doctor Who is about a creepy old wizard, whose mind is on higher things.

He didn't cry in the latest episode.

Doctor Who is about a creepy old wizard, whose mind is on higher things

Lame

Alright, I just don't see why they felt the need to revisit it, Midnight of all episodes definitely doesn't need it. I'll take your word for it though.

Oh well that's alright then.

The original Star Trek is frankly better than almost everything that followed, and has aged perfectly. The 60's camp and simple likability of the characters just gets better and better(now that we're starved for that shit).
It's Next Generation and even Voyager and Enterprise that are really starting to look wonky these days, with their super specific 90's and 00's isms.
I mean, a magical negro bartender, and fake native american vision quests. Really?

ad nauseum nothing arguments from faggots who watch second-hand and just want more david trannant

I wish judy was still around yo beat y'all asses

Writing just got lazy, sucking all tension away by making The Doctor an unstoppable god who became less creative towards solutions.

Matt Smith's second half was indeed shit but the reasons you're listing here are completely off the mark. First, becoming "less creative towards solutions" was not the problem at all, in fact a big downside of that time of Moffat's era was that his plotting and payoffs were so convoluted and overengineered that it was prone to stifling character work. As for "making The Doctor an unstoppable god" well I think you're just not remembering that time well because it was mostly about tearing down the notion the Doctor is a god and showing exactly why having that reputation often ruins things for him.

Boring autist

So what? I can't have a character?
You already get everything else

You should be grateful you're even allowed to live, anon

You're boring, and can only appreciate one kind of character.

See this is what kills me about RTDfags, and why they're cancer who should be shot.
They're okay with the Doctor declaring himself to be a god in episodes like The Waters of Mars.
But they hate when other people start calling him a god in episodes like A Good Man Goes to War.

You're talking to people who heard the speech in Pandorica, and didn't get that the Doctor was self-owning in that scene.

Autists build everything that keeps you alive. You should get off my planet.

dude, I'm sociable and have sex sometimes!

Okay... So do monkeys.

I'm not the one advocating for Doctor Who to be this pretentious cerebral show that only autists can appreciate. Where's the fun? The adventure?

Autists build everything that keeps you alive

That's bullshit, bro. Again, quit coping.

They just don't remember the RTD episodes, because they were that much younger when they aired, and weren't engaging with tumblr yet.
He 100% was more of a god in RTD's run. Moffat leant into "people think he's a god, but actually he's an artful trickster, or just a guy who doesn't really know what he's doing".

What have you built, anon?
What great labor have you undertaken?
You wouldn't be taking credit for the things other people have done, would you?

It started with 7 really. youtu.be/J4zbdP_Xuzg

I think it's fun when he's a strange magician in a box.
If I want to watch James Bond, I can watch James Bond. That's a whole other thing.

I'm constructing my own model of cheese fermentation.

Wash your dick.

my wife was really curious about the Ring-a-Ding episode

No, anon, that's not how you do it. Mr. Ring-a-Ding wasn't black so this /who/ meme attempt doesn't work.

Who is wheels mcgee in unit? The fucks she gonna do, ram em?

Best era of Dr Who was the 70s
3rd Doctor - 1970- 1974
4th Doctor - 1974 - 1981
Some 2nd Doctor adventures are good
But in the 80s the show toke a nose dive. 5th and 6th simply don't had the character to hold up the show
The 8th Doctor ( Paul mcgann) is a great doctor , his audio adventures are the best
And he got the charisma need it for the Role
The 9th Doctor have presence , too short season sadly but great season
Then came David Tennant and with him came along the fags, the normies and the woke mob , by the 4th season it was going downhill, then came the 11th , at first the woke mob of fags and normies went out once David Tennant left the show, but the trend of shitting the show was without breaks
Now is a black Fag with 0 charisma , along with the stupid face Hindu, Dr who is a dead franchise
The only merch that sells is from the classic era

Just watched the Cushing movies, top comfy stuff. Didn't expect to see Wilf

Doctor Who in the 80s was fucking masterful compared to the dreck the BBC has been spewing out since the mid-2000s.

Show's dead because instead of getting a real Doctor, the show's been stunt casting for the last near-decade.

Eccleston Tennant Smith Capaldi had to deal with some really shitting writing but they had the magnetism and gravitas that could carry anything. You could record these men just walking through the desert doing nothing other than staring ahead, record some light narration with their voices, and it'd make for a watchable episode of television.

The doctors after them do not have this quality. Jodie Whittaker was like a mardy kindergarten nanny, Ncuti Gatwa is honestly just a very embarrassing stereotype of a cock-hungry metrosexual black guy from a coastal city. They don't have "it", they don't talk the right way, their eyes don't have that capacity for anger or world-weariness, they don't have what it takes to compel you to watch. The show is dead at this point but it could've lived if the last two doctors were actually Doctors.

They don't have "it", they don't talk the right way, their eyes don't have that capacity for anger or world-weariness, they don't have what it takes to compel you to watch

Because they leaned into the Doctor being a silly meme. He's a joke. A gag character.

I genuinely have no fucking clue what you're talking about.

I agree, accept for Smith, he's right in the middle leaning towards the current shit we have.

The Doctor's obsession of there being a "better way" instead of just killing the bad guy ends up getting a bunch of innocents killed. And the Doctor keeps on with his bullshit and it never fucking works.

Making Smith the childish one was a waste.

Smith > Tennant

I recently listened to a Companion Chronicles audio with Susan and while it referenced her dead son which I knew little about it was still enjoyable as a standalone thing yeah. You only need to have watched the classic series episodes with Susan. So it's pretty accessible if you're a fan of a specific character or era.

The Doctor's obsession of there being a "better way" instead of just killing the bad guy ends up getting a bunch of innocents killed

Why are Lefties so obsessed with characters like these? Why sympathize with the homicidal maniacs? Its like that one guy I knew who felt bad for psychopaths because "they don't know any better".

Nice strawman

It's the attitude of people who work at the BBC. they think they have to "guide the nation", so they endlessly try to push their stupid retarded morals on us, regardless of how little sense any of it makes.
this is why Doctor Who is so schizophrenic in it's messaging. Because the shit that we all know makes sense is fighting with things that BBC assholes want us to believe.

guns bad, and soldiers bad, but also I love military operations like UNIT, because they represent the authority of governmental structures I approve of personally. Don't you DARE oppose them!

They're okay with the Doctor declaring himself to be a god in episodes like The Waters of Mars.

This was already addressed earlier, and The Doctor was proven wrong

RTD laid on the "I feel the turn of the earth" speeches constantly. Also loved just randomly giving the Doctor superpowers, and having him fly, and so forth. Remember when he stepped through the fans? What the hell was that?

Remember when he stepped through the fans? What the hell was that?

He timed it perfectly. Simple as.

She's the only handicap actor RTD knows, apparently.

Put some bitch into power

Wank her off saying she's going to lead into the Golden Ages of England

Immediately oppose her and she's evil

I don't get it.

Also, how did he not die immediately when he jumped out of the space ship in The End of Time?
He's only really supposed to have the resilience of a regular human.

Unironically some weird power move RTD was pulling about how he could build up and then crash Chris Eccleston's career. the man has issues.